You wouldn’t normally think of a 5th wheel trailer as a tiny house, but when I was invited over to Matt and Kathleen’s Forest River Cardinal trailer which is parked behind a friend’s home, I was astounded at how cozy and “house-like” it felt. The couple, who downsized from their home in Seattle to this 30-foot trailer about a year ago, have turned it into a little mobile retreat.
A few years ago, a trip to India opened the couple’s eyes to an alternative way of life and they decided to sell their home in Seattle and most of their belongings. Kathleen said they were both “ready for wheels on a house” and wanted more time for themselves and each other. Matt works as a freelance multimedia designer and Kathleen is an acupuncturist, so their jobs can go on the road with them. Their cats, Mojo and Chloe, also travel along with them and seem to love their new, sunny home.
The couple’s travels have taken them to several RV parks and campgrounds in the West and they spent last winter on a relative’s ranch in Arizona. They currently live in the large acreage behind a friend’s home and pay $500 a month which includes their utilities and Internet access. Since this winter will be colder than the one in Arizona, the 10,500 lb trailer has currently been fitted with a plywood skirt to protect the tanks and pumps. Matt mentioned that the skirting keeps the bay and bottom of the trailer about 4 to 10 degrees warmer than the outside air.
The reason the couple chose a fifth wheel rather than a wooden tiny house on wheels is simple: Matt is 6’2″ and needed the headroom. This particular trailer was also rated one of the highest in insulation value. The couple purchased the fifth wheel from Fife RV in Washington for $14,500 and it contains a slider for the living room, a cozy kitchen and dining area, a stand-up work station for Matt, a shower and separate toilet, full bedroom, and they keep it warm with the propane/electric furnace and small space heaters. Gray and black water is first sent through a grinding pump before being pumped into the home’s septic system.
Kathleen said that while it can be difficult to keep the trailer warm and that cleaning out the tanks is not fun, she loves the freedom of the trailer.
“I love the mobility and the idea of being totally self contained,” she said. Matt added that he also loves that there’s no wasted space and he totally digs the trailer’s “Command Center” where they can keep an eye on the level of the tanks, the lighting and battery system.
“We were a bit worried about what people would think of us,” Matt said. “But the response to our decision to move into the trailer has been overwhelmingly positive.”
Photos by Harry Thomas
By Christina Nellemann for the [Tiny House Blog]
I’ve wondered for years now, why the tiny housers haven’t borrowed more of the well developed technology from the RV world. I’ll trade a stupid tiny house toilet to the easy to use valve and hose system of RVs. The kitchens are far better set up, much safer (fire safety) than the tiny kitchens, water comes from a large tank rather than a small jug. I could continue. A fellow architect did his senior thesis (in 1971) by redesigning the then poorly designed RV (Winnebago was about it at the time). His designs propagated what we see today. And interestingly enough, if you go to RV shows, you can spend more than the cost of a pricey home with all the amenities they can throw onto it.
I’d like to see the tiny home world come together and develop tiny home neighborhoods but one-upping RV parks with all the sustainable stuff.
Love your digs, Matt and Kathleen
I agree with the reply about RV knowledge. They understand that small livivg doesn’t mean uncomfortable. It’s also good to go to a sailboat show and look at their furnishings and especially their bath and kitchen solutions. As the above reply said, their use of holding tanks and water tanks and creative storage for not just the tanks, but everything else, would make the tiny house a place one would want to stay in longer.
I agree about the Tiny House parks and neighborhoods. I’ve been toying with buying a piece of land and putting a TH village on it as a gated community. Building a Tiny House is only step 1; step 2 is finding a place to keep it so you can live in it.
I also agree that we should be looking at RV technology to see what conveniences we can adapt to our Tiny Houses for convenience, comfort and safety.
I lived in a 23 ft Avion for over 10 years, off & on. We would move from one State to another starting in 1972, until selling it in 1981 in Spokane, WA. I heartily agree it sure changes the way you look at life, live more outdoors, and can change your scenery and move on to warmer climes as the Seasons demand. Or stay put and winterize it as we did when living in Broomfield, CO. Today, I live in Florida, and have a real estate license. I also know of a 28 acre parcel, next to the Ocala Forest, that would be perfect for a TH community. It has an eight acre spring fed lake, is cleared, replanted with 100 natural deciduous trees, gated, fenced for animals, a 6-stall barn, and building sites. It could be the wave of the future for RVers, tiny houses, and people wanting a different way of life.
Terrific! Have you the necessary local authority permissions for such a park? In Spain and the UK everything is licence-bound. I wish you great luck and await your reply. Christine Ferguson
Hi Trudy, did you ever get your th village started in Florida. Just wondering.
Lisa: I think you’ve got it backwards. 1 step is finding a place to live in the tiny house, 2 step is building it.
Look at all the people who have had to sell their tiny home or move on short notice because they didn’t have a good place to put it.
Susan,
Tiny home builders would do well by adopting many of the features incorporated into RV’s. Did you know that in Texas, if an RV Park admits tiny homes into their park that do not meet the minimum requirements of an RV, which is a dump tank and water tank, they could be fined and even lose their permit to park RV’s. I have a client who owns many RV parks and a number of them in Texas where I reside. Also, if built along the RV standard, you are more likely to get a better finance rate if you need to obtain funds to build or re-finance the tiny home.
I LOVE your RV and it is almost identical to mine, another 30′ fiver with three slides.
Susan, you’ve articulated exactly what I think every time I read about tiny houses. I love the look of them, but I don’t know why they haven’t incorporated many of the systems that are already well-proven in RVs. My hubby and I live in a 25′ Airstream half the year, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s the perfect “tiny house” — with the added benefit that we can park it in any campground or RV park around the country.
The biggest difference between RV living and Tiny House living, give me a call in about 15 years, when all the particle board and plastics start breaking down, and the roof leaks, aluminum windows, mildew, must I go on? This comes from one who lived in an RV for 5 years. No comparison.
Do you find that the furnishings, bathroom, etc. in your home are sturdy? I ask because my husband is very large. 6’2″ and 300 lbs. he is convinced that he would break everything in an RV.
i’m a master plumber and licensed electrician. a new unit will be fine. used, who knows, you have to look. not to be rude but 300lbs means he may not have enough room to get around. before anyone jumps up here i used to weight 280lbs and i’m 5′ 5″. i remember.
take him to the rv shows. wear shoes that both of you can slip out of and try stuff. sit on toilets, get in showers, try beds, dining table, try everything including the entry door. take a notebook and write down a check list in each unit with model #. actually the rv people love this, you are the closest thing to a customer they have seen all day.
rent an exact model if possible and try it out. rent something and try it out. drive it around see if you like the drive.
peaceup billy
Travel trailers have some very usable floor plans, but for me, that it where the love affair stops. Airstream makes the best and costs the most up front-they use good quality materials. The others, in my opinion use very cheap materials, no matter how nice they look and how much you spend; they are not worth it in my opinion. I have had three travel trailers in my life and I will have no more. The last one we owned had a great floor plan. I would like to build a tiny home around the floor plan. A home that will last a life time with far less up keep than a travel trailer.
No matter what anyone else thinks. It’s all about pursuing what you want and being who you want to be, without encumbrances. Happy trails.
I would just like to remind people of the Katrina trailers. These RV’s are loaded with flame retardant’s. From Cushions to the carpets. Formaldehyde is used to process the wood fiber that is used throughout. People, lot’s of people were getting sick from spending so much time exposed to this stuff in Louisiana that there was a lawsuit, maybe more than one. I am not trying to scare, just being real about something that most people only use a few weeks and or weekends a Year, therbye minimizing exposure.
http://www.toxictrailers.org/2011/03/staying-in-travel-trailer-making-worker.html
The insulation values used in RVs make them unusable in any place which gets below freezing for an extended period of time. Tanks, pipes, drains, etc are not protected from freezing. That makes it a non-starter for living in year round.
Otherwise, I agree that a lot of practical ideas for storage/layout can be reused from RV design. Most ‘tiny houses’ I see are just simply small versions of large houses with the same ideas about wasted space brought into a smaller footprint. It will take some time for the two worlds to cross breed.
As I live in WA in the winter, and AK during the summer, I too lived a few years in a 32 fifth wheel. It is a practical option, but that said, I do not feel they belong on a Tiny House blog. There are so many forums, blogs, and resources for RV’s, they do not need to be promoted on this type of blog.
Also, the difference between factory RV’s and tiny homes, to me, is the ability to make changes and the overall quality difference in materials used. RV’s are meant to be light, tiny homes are meant to be sturdy.
My final decision to sell my 5th wheel and start building a portable tiny house was mostly due to the fact that RV’s, in general, are build from the inside out in a factory. If you want to remove the crappy furniture, or relocate cabinets, you really can not due to them being stapled in place from the outside of the walls before the siding went on. The rubber roof’s standard on RV’s also is a constant worry compared to more traditional, long lasting roofs seen on tiny homes.
I enjoy seeing new inspiring ideas brought to me by the Tiny House Blog, and hope this is the one and only time you feature a factory built RV. The only things that sightly co-relate are floor plans, and living in a small space; This article touched on neither.
DJL, so true about the inside-outward build of R.V.’s…earlier this year I purchased a 26′ travel trailer, and have been challenged in rearranging the layout. I’ve removed some of the built-ins, changed the floorplan by relocating dividing walls. The staples are a huge problem, so many used that I’ve ripped the wood trying to separate the walls.
I’m a huge tiny house fan and find tiny living suits me. Less is more! 🙂
I lived in a 33ft RV trailer for close to 3 years and loved it. I loved the coziness I felt while there that I never had with and home I lived in. There where a few drawbacks, like the size of the bathroom. I also see the way a lot of the tiny houses are built, especially with a sleeping loft.One thing for sure if I was to build a tiny house on wheels I would combine the good from both and one things fore sure (NO SLEEPING LOFT). I cant see myself at my age and as I get older climbing up to bed every night.They both have good and bad in their design so it just a matter of combining the good from both and leaving out the bad, I think that this is totally possible.
Having lived in assorted RV’s for many years of my life, I’ve always said those were my happiest years be it our 19′ Winnebago, 32′ Holiday Rambler, or 35′ park model double tip out Aljo. Each was different yet I loved the ease and simplicity the smaller home sort of forced upon me. Now I’m living in a wheelchair full-time so that dream went rolling down the road yet I miss the lifestyle each and every day even though we have a unique yet comfy 1,900 square foot 113 year old farmhouse on five acres. My major concern about RV’ing or even tiny homes are about where we put them. Most RV parks are charging $350 – $700 per month. That’ll buy a LOT of home when you’re looking at a mortgage. Meanwhile we’re in the early stages of building a small guest house that will incorporate many of the great ideas I’m learning on Tiny House Blog. RV’s always use space better plain and simple. My main issue with new RV’s is simply the cost, especially when you’re looking at higher quality units such as Airstream that can easily pop a person $70,000 and up without batting an eye not to mention the two vehicle. Add that cost to the price for simply parking it and I find the overall value rather terrifying. The lifestyle is fantastic. It’s the cost for living a simpler life that doesn’t make sense. Once we crack that nut, I’ll get overhead handrails installed just like we had on our 26′ sailboat and just hang like a monkey so I can get around the delightful tiny house or RV lifestyle. You guys have the dream my wife and me of 30+ years always wanted. We couldn’t be happier for you:)
I love Matt and Kathleen’s 5th wheel. Thank you for sharing it. My husband and I have been thinking of selling our manufactured home and living in a 5th wheel for awhile. The one concern I have is, as someone else mentioned, our size. My husband is 6’2″ and I’m 5’11” and we are not skinny by any means. I worry about feeling claustrophobic in bathrooms and bedrooms. But as someone suggested here, it would be a good idea to visit an RV show and try things out. We went to a show earlier this year but didn’t think to sit on toilets, try beds, dining table, etc. Good idea for next time!
One thing you could consider is how much indoor vs outdoor time you spend. If you are going to be somewhere that allows you to be outside more (better weather) then maybe you won’t really mind the cozy time in your home? We spend a lion’s share of our hometime outdoors grilling, playing with the dogs, walking, enjoying the scenery, listening to the radio and just chilling out. But, if you can’t be outside much, then you might get on each other’s last nerves!
My husband and I lived 5 years full time in a RV in Northern Idaho where the weather goes below freezing for weeks at a time. Our RV had a subfloor and a winter insulation package so there were no issues with the drains. You leave the black tank drain closed until it needs emptying (about once a week) and in really cold weather do the same with the grey tank drain. It worked out well for us.
Having purchased a travel trailer until I can build a Tiny Home, I think skirting is a good idea. Your plywood application looks great. How did you frame it? Thanks for sharing pics of your home!
I framed it with 2x4s, starting with one on the ground, attach the plywood section, and then put a vertical 2×4 to attach the next plywood section and so on… I also used pipe foam on the top edges of the plywood to get a good seal against the 5er and to avoid the wood rubbing and scratching up the finish. It was a lot of work, but worth it.
Thank You, Matt! I’m getting everything together, should work well. In addition, I’m sealing cracks with expandable foam, covering inside of windows with plastic…I imagine it may sweat in between, but think the savings will be worth it.
I **love** the Tiny House RV lifestyle! I sold 5 acres and a showplace house to have a plain vanilla (no fru-fru RV stuff in it) custom 34′ New Horizons 5th wheel built. The RV Consumers Group rates the brand as #1 in the nation for safety, durability, and livability as a fulltimer. I’ve now lived in it for 13 years, both traveling and stationary, both with hookups (rare) and boondocking. It’s equipped with solar and enough battery storage to go months at a time without shore power. I chose top-of-the-line appliances (including washer/dryer) and plenty of room not only in the bathroom, but in the entire rig also, for most people to live and move around. (A custom-build can be sized to your needs.) It has none of the usual so-called “tacky” furniture and funky drapery in it; instead, I use furniture I had built or brought from my stick house. And yes, I can move the pieces around, upstairs and down, to suit my current needs. The R-value of the insulation matches or exceeds that of many stick-homes. I’d love to have them build me an RV in the Tiny House style — can’t you just see going down the road towing one of those as one pursues adventure and camaraderie of traveling friends!
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For support for this lifestyle, and a huge knowledge-base from which to draw, check out the Escapees RV Club, and for a beautiful intentional and sustainable community homebase park in which to put your tiny house, see their location in the central California foothills–it’s not the usual run-of-the-mill RV parks one usually thinks of. I’ve long considered my “rig” to be a Tiny House of ~300 sq ft.
I didn’t list websites; if you’re interested, google New Horizons RV and Escapees RV Club, and browse the sites you find. You’ll see a world that most people never imagine, and that could very well mesh with your Tiny House needs at the same time as providing you with great adventure. I began traveling/parking for awhile at age 60; at 73, I’m still an intrepid woman with an enviable (and doable for many) lifestyle, at much less cost to the environment and my pocketbook than “traditional” housing affords.
I salute those of you who are living the Tiny House dream, no matter the style or location!
See you Down the Road,
Sage~~
Guess all of us reading and oggling the site are with you, lady. I’m ready for another go any day soon. Kibran, the Lebanese poet says ‘Verily the lust for comfort murders the soul and then walks grinning in the funeral.” etc.
Me?.I’ll take the comfort any day and take a chance with the cosseted soul..
Great !! You’re right, I intend to do the same thing …
Are there no pictures including the stand-up work station? I’m also 6′ 2″ and built a custom standing desk in my apartment. The idea of moving into a tiny house is very appealing, but I haven’t seen an ergonomic computer workstation executed well in one yet.
Tiny homes and 5th wheels are really apples and oranges. Why try to compare them? Top of the line 5th wheels are beautiful with all the amenities but they do depreciate rather fast and they are not problem free. A tiny home can only appreciate in value if you have a nice spot for it, like 40 acres in the boonies. When you have time and money, you can put additions on it, etc. You cannot do that with a 5th wheel. They are what they are. I think having both would be the ideal situation.
There are some important differences between a tiny house and an RV. Both have their advantages. Before the invention of the wheel people have moved their shelter and the vast majority of portable shelters are only as large as necessary.
First, the RV is designed specifcally to be moved constantly. Purchasing a decently designed RV means you have whole systems; water, waste, lighting, heating, cooking, that have had the bugs worked out decades ago. You are ready to roll. As soon as cars hit the road people started modifying them to use as rolling shelter. Buying a used functional RV is cheaper than most structures cost and means you can be on the road pronto. Plus you have a broader market if you decide to sell. It can be an inexpensive way to see if tiny living is for you. Park an old small trailer in a campground and spend a month in it.
A stick built structure, regardless of the size, usually is not designed to be banged around on the road more than is absolutely necessary. If it looks like a house it will be allowed to be built in regular towns as time goes on. Communities with zoning laws that are now warming to the tiny house movement see the advantages in land use, power requirements, water use, etc. in allowing tiny shelter to be built. Those same communities do not want ragged old RV trailers parked on Main Street, or even new ones forming neighborhoods. They want attractive, familiar housing designs that will not totally clash with what is already there.
If you like the idea of moving a lot but prefer a somewhat familiar house-like environment, buy a truck and convert it to a housecar. It can be the best of both worlds, Just remember how much movement it will have to survive.
The problem is the same one faced by people living on the water. Many marinas don’t care if your boat is capable of movement but it must appear to be a decent boat, not a barge with a shanty tied to the top.
It’s a big beautiful world and we all can find some place to live on a small scale from permanently built tiny houses to rolling shelter to people driving around with a yurt on the roof to people hiking and living in a tent.
Before you consider the shelter, consider the way in which you want to live.
I too, live in a 34′ fifth wheel travel trailer. I moved it onto 20 acres 7 years ago. I love it. I love the simplicity. After this many years I am still “downsizing”, getting rid of so many things I thought I needed but find I don’t. I moved out of 2800 sq ft into 280ish. Only difference, I’m doing it in Fairbanks, Alaska!