Guest Post by Ryo Chijiiwa
If I’d accepted the job Mark Zuckerberg offered me in 2005, I probably wouldn’t be here. If I hadn’t quit my job at Google a year and a half ago, I probably wouldn’t be here either. But I am here, and for the most part, I’m glad I am.
“Here” is in a half-finished cabin in the woods, and broke. Again. I was in a similar place when you last heard from me on the Tiny House Blog. When I last wrote here a year ago, I had just finished my 48 square foot hut, which cost me the last of my savings. Without enough funds to buy insulation for the winter, I was forced back to the city of San Francisco where I took refuge during the colder months. Like a regular city-dweller, I did some contract programming work and paid monthly rent. But when spring arrived with its bright warm sunny days, I could no longer stay cooped up indoors.
So, I returned to Serenity Valley, my 60 acres in the woods.
I spent the summer months trying to grow my first garden in poor rocky soil and with no running water. Late in the summer, with some money still left from the previous winter’s work, I started designing a larger hut, which I named, perhaps unimaginatively, Hut 2.0. While I had only allocated $500 for Hut 1.0, I decided I could probably afford to spend a whopping $2000 for the new version. My back-of-the-envelope calculations showed that I could build a 12 x 8 foot structure within that budget, and afford things I couldn’t afford for Hut 1.0: proper roofing, real windows, a commercially-made door, exterior-grade siding and, most importantly, insulation.
In mid-August, construction began when a few friends showed up for the raising. Things slowed down when I was left to continue on my own. I got distracted and went to Burning Man, after which I returned to an unusually rainy September, which my roofless structure spent mostly under a tarp. I finally got my butt in gear in October and finished the roof. In November, a friend came out for a couple of weeks to help, though I was also set back a few days when I decided to add a 3ft extension to the hut to make it a 120 square foot cabin, now dubbed Hut 2.1. My friend left after a couple of weeks, and I continued alone again as December rolled in with the snow. As of now, Hut 2.1 is fully enclosed, and should be insulated soon.
But I’m broke. I neglected to budget in a chimney for the cabin, and was surprised to find that it would cost at least another $500. Then, there’s everything else: the car payment, the land payment, health and car insurance, property taxes, food, gas, phone bills, credit card bills.
So I find myself at a difficult juncture. I can head back to San Francisco and find a job in Silicon Valley again. Though I probably wouldn’t be very happy in a cubicle, I would make decent money, and live in a nice warm apartment. My nearly-finished cabin would sit empty, and my readers, whom I’ve slowly attracted over the past year and a half, would probably dissolve back into the distractions of the Internet. Or if I managed to scrape together the money, I could finish my cabin, spend the winter in it, and continue blogging about how cold and harsh life is 4200ft up in the mountains.
Call me crazy, but I actually would prefer the latter. And call them sadistic, but apparently my readers would prefer the latter too. A few were even eager enough to see me continue my blog that they offered to donate money and equipment. Emboldened by such offers, I posted a plea for contributions, and Kent responded by offering to let me write a guest post here on the Tiny House Blog.
Which brings us to the present. Actually, I didn’t want to come here to ask for money to finish my cabin. It’s one thing for my readers to donate money and boots in exchange for the entertainment value they derive from my blog. But it’s another for the readers of the Tiny House Blog to do so. After all, you folks read about people living in tiny houses day in and day out, and they’ve managed to do so without asking you for money. So it hardly seems fair for me to do so. But that still leaves me with my predicament.
So here’s what I’ll propose instead. I would like to raise money to finish my cabin and prepare to spend an entire month on my property this winter, where I will spend 31 days living almost completely off the grid. For the duration of this project, which I am calling Project 31, I will not leave my property. I will not drive my car, or for that matter, burn a single drop of gasoline. I will only use electricity I can generate from my solar panels and a wind generator (if I can afford one). I will only use water that falls from the sky. What I have at hand on Day 0 is what I’ll have, use, and consume for the remaining 31 days.
I came up with Project 31, partially because it seemed like an interesting and exciting challenge for myself, but also because I believe there are lessons I can learn and share with the world at large. Blogging and producing videos about what I do has been an important aspect of my journey over the past year and a half, and the support I’ve received from my readers and viewers have been a tremendous source of encouragement and inspiration. Needless to say, I would like to continue to tell my story and share my thoughts and any lessons garnered from Project 31 as well, and keep these conversations alive. To do so, I will make one exception to the “off-grid” rule and allow myself an internet connection via cell phone while on my property, for the purposes of uploading blog posts, photos and videos. Upon completion of the project, if I have enough material, I also want to write a book (ahem, any publishers out there?).
If this sounds interesting to you — and I hope it does, whether you’re interested in off-grid living, living simply, or preparedness and survival — please help any way you can. On my blog, I’ve listed a number of ways folks can help, from monetary and material contributions to simply leveraging your social network to get the word out. I am excited about this project, and I hope you’ll join me in making this adventure a successful and fruitful one for all of us. To stay updated, you may subscribe to my blog, Laptop and a Rifle, or follow me on Facebook and Twitter.
May I suggest uploading your book as a kindle book from amazon site?
May I suggest selling your car and working to pay off your credit card debt before soliciting money from people to cover your time living off the grid? I’m sorry, but I’m spending the next year working at my regular job so that I can afford to step away and start building my cabin. Please don’t ask people to support you if you aren’t willing to make your own sacrifices.
Bravo, KJ
A vehicle isn’t a luxury in a remote living scenario: it’s a lifeline and a matter of safety.
I’m essentially on the same path.
I’ve had the trailer but, it just has not been ready. Here recently I got a hold of a second trailer and have had to prepare it. My first and number one is 22 feet…could be 24. The second is 30 feet. The first trailer was actually purchased a year ago. I’m a carpenter…so I’ve been working on it between jobs. The ultimate dream is home/shop. I’ve had/am having the same problem as you. I need more jing now…right now. I’m looking for work…beginning of the year is tough for guys like me–probably for a lot of people, considering the time of year and the economic climate. I have to face the fact that work comes first…
To begin with, after I initially purchased the trailer things bogged down till I figured (for me at least) I had to spend as much time as I could, whenever I could, out there working. As a result, I’ve experienced progress. Like saving money…a little at time, consistently–it adds up. I’ve also had the distinct advantage of having very close proximity to the project.
Is commuting entirely out of the question?
Go back, pick-up a job, couch surf till you get enough jing together?
Get the trailer mobile and closer to work…know any friendly driveways?
I guess you’re not in a place where you could work from your computer…like consulting work? You’ve got to be a genius if Zuckerburg wants you:).
(Here lately we’ve bee trying to get a glass blowing business off the ground and my used Nortel RedMax torch is began taking a crap. I’m looking at having to buy a new burner head…damn and double damn.)
Whatever the case, please stay in touch me.
I admire the determination and work you’ve gone thru to get this far.
(I guess you know that Ryo in Spannish means lighting?)
I’m on the same path. I’m going to keep at it.
I believe in the ideas of downsizing and sustainability–I do.
It makes sense for the planet…and me.
A lot of people are talking about…we’re doing it.
Take care,
…Max
I’d highly suggest bringing potable water with you, and not rely on rainwater alone. Do you have access to a stream/pond near your land?
I’d also suggest that you abandon the idea of an internet connection. This will completely sever your link to the outside world, and make yourself truly ‘off-grid’.
By day 20, I bet you will have a shift in mindset, and put together some really interesting thoughts. Write, record video, then dribble it out over the 31 days after your experiment. It will give you a chance to reflect a bit more on your experience, and give you a bit of time to re-acclimate yourself to the wider world.
Good luck with your experiment!
Pay you to live? That really rubs me the wrong way. Do your programming job, save some money, and support yourself…
Nothing worth doing is ever easy. I think you will get much more satisfaction funding your project and finnishing it your self. That said I would make some sugestions to help.
You could purchase a small tent type wood stove inexpencive compared to regular ones and pipe it out the wall like I did in my microhomestead project.
also I just created a tiny portable shower system for micro housers again very inexpensive.You can see it here http://kevinsmicrohomestead.wordpress.com/ I will be watching for your progress lack of funds just alows for more inovation and creativity .
Your smart use your head you will make this work if you want it bad enough 😉
I am sorry that I have no funds to give, but your asking doesn’t upset me. I’m not sure why it seems to upset some folks, but I figure for you, there’s no harm in asking. I have some advice though, because I have thought of doing the same thing as you, but I’ve been just thinking for a long time.
Don’t try to reinvent the wheel. Research and learn what the old timers in your area did (the successful ones). Look at what the poor are doing, read lots of back to the land magazines and books, they will tell you how to do virtually everything you want to do. And then add your own solar powered twist, although Mother Earth News will tell you how to do that too.
They will tell you how to hunt, improve your soil, grow food, save food, keep critters out, use a wood or coal stove, build a chimney that is cheep and safe. harvest water from a variety of sources and more. you will make plenty of your own mistakes anyway, but why make it harder than it has to be?
I think I know why it upsets people. He’s thumbing his nose at opportunities that in this economy lots of people can’t even dream of, but he sneers at because they’re not perfect for him. There’s good jobs out there for him, but he’s turning nose up at him. Well, suck it up, Princess: to quote the Stones, you can’t always get what you want.
I was injured in Iraq and can’t work, but you can bet I’d work any crappy job I could get if things changed tomorrow. I’d donate to somebody in hard times or for an emergency, but he set up this situation and he’s not happy with it. He didn’t have an accident, or a misfortune, or an illness: he just wants to do things his way and not have to wait for what he wants.
I feel bad for you, I can see that you are very bitter. If you can type than you can work. There are lots of jobs that involve a little training perhaps, but only require typing. Medical transcription pays well.
This guy isn’t happy either, and wants to change his life. Do you begrudge him that right?
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Isn’t that part of what you fought for?
If you find him ungrateful, don’t help him.
He’s not talking about Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. He’s talking about how he doesn’t want to work—–while boasting about the high paying jobs he turns down—-but wants other people to fund his life style. There’s nothing wrong with him.
You say the man doesn’t want to “work”. From what I see, he is ready to “work”. Different priorities. Different ideals. Working at homesteading would seem like torture to many millions of people in this country. If he works for a tech co., they “supply” him with a desk, computer, parking space, gym membership, 401k, insurance, software, money, etc. All in exchange for his work. But here is a brave man willing to challenge the social norms and live without many of those securities. He’s not so much asking for cash, as he is asking for help from his neighbors at his barn raising of sorts. In the old days, it was in a neighbors best interest to help because they were paying it forward. Here is a guy, who I imagine, if he gets self-sufficient (with a little help up front) will FREELY help others do the same. And we all need things like that to start happening again in this country. All of you people who are ridiculing him for asking for help, are contributing to ideas of an isolated, lonely existence. Well, I for one believe in tiny houses because I believe in community and a sharing existence. I say take your selfish ideas elsewhere to a blog made by you and for you alone, where you can read them and be happy with them by yourselves. Keep your money, Scrooges, I will help my neighbors gladly and gladly receive their help. By the way, you are always welcome to join our camp. None of us want to “use” you or profit from you. We just enjoy being together. We love to share our talents and would be grateful to share in yours.
RyGuy says:
You must have missed his link to his “donations” page, where he goes on about how he has to pay for food and clothing, equipment and supplies, needs to pay for health insurance and car insurance, and has debts to pay. And where he says his only limitation is money. (No crap idiot. Money is the only thing keeping a lot of people from ditching their day job and living in a cabin, or sailing around the world, etc.) Then he goes on to ask people to commit to donating $5 a week, $10 a month, $30 a month, etc., or make a one-time donation. Oh, and then he asks for people to donate items he needs also. I mean, he could just buy those things, but his only limitation is money. You know, the only thing limiting me from going into outer space is money.
He’s not asking for a barn raising. CAn you read? He doesn’t want to work, even though jobs are hard to come by in this economy, and he’s turning down good ones. But that doesn’t stop him from spending money he should be saving. He went to Burning Man instead of building his house?
To Josh. You are right. I did not read that description on his link. Now knowing what he wants the money for, I too find his request a little bit ridiculous. But, that is not to say, altogether out of the question for a guy attempting to help rewrite social norms. He needs to show some more guts before I personally would give money to help him. But, maybe for some others out there with more time or money than they need, his story is inspiring enough for them to want to be a part of it at this stage. I don’t ridicule people who pay their bills with grant money while they study the mating patterns of penguins. This really isn’t all that different of a concept. I mean he is openly sharing what he is discovering while adding to the (very helpful) number of us out there challenging the consumerist mentality.
He’s not trying to rewrite social norms, he just doesn’t want to have the responsibilities of working for a living and making his own way in this life. This is not some grand sociological experiment – this is a guy who doesn’t want to have to try to hack it in the real world. Now, I don’t have any problem with anyone who decides they don’t want to live in the “normal” society, and decides they want to go live a wilderness existence. But be a grown up about it and figure out how to make it work; don’t expect others to pay to indulge your Walden Pond fantasy.
Why would you? Presumably, they’re studying something of scientific relevance that is important to people other than themselves. That phrase people other than themselves is key in that sentence. And studying migrating patterns of penguins sounds like work to me; it’s not just being paid to do whatever you want because you don’t want to work.
You are a very angry and rude person, and your kind of comments don’t belong here. Since you are using this as a forum for your anger, and you have plenty of time and energy for writing, Why don’t you start a blog, or write a book, but don’t hang around here and insult people, just because they don’t agree with you.
As for the name calling, I don’t believe you would have said that to a man.
By the way your own choices got you where you are today, so don’t blame others. sincerely Marry sunshine, sanctimonious bitty
PS. Do you have a lot of readers? Have you considered soliciting advertisers for you blog? Perhaps from companies who’s products you use, like the propane co. or the maker of your solar panels and batteries?
Yeah- all you need is one or two sponsors….hiking gear, gardening, tools….OR- make/sell a few handmade goods/art pieces on your blog in exchange for donations- this way its a two-way street and people can feel tied to your projects in other ways. Handcarve n’ sell walking sticks, poly-coated, at a local farmers market?
Woodstove-wise- you can occasionally find ’em free- or buy a cheap barrel-stove kit, build a rocket-stove out of cob, etc….many ways to do it cheaply. One of my woodstoves I got for free, the other, for $75.00…..
Anyway, great project, great site- and best of luck with all!
-Deek
Relaxshacks.com
howabout doing what you do (or adapting it) and only working for clients who believe in what you do – eg. eco conscious company/firm/client who need computer help? then you won’t feel like you are selling your soul, but using your skills in the right arena. I once heard if you combine your passion with your talent then everyone wins! good luck
Hi. I actually think you should bite the bullet and go back to work for another season AND do as others have said by finding a few sponsors/ads for your blog. Because by doing so, you will have the requisite funds to do things properly for the long haul rather than on the cheap and makeshift.
I also have absolutely no problem with your asking for donations, as we are all free to say no if we don’t wish to do so. What I DO have a problem with is how some people word their responses to your request and come off very rude and unkind. I’ve seen it done to you, Deek, Scott, Kent and others. If we are all into the tiny house concept and caring about the planet, we certainly can word things in a way that is not rude or unkind to the intended target, which shows we also care about human beings.
Good luck with your project, and there is a lot of knowledge here so pick the brains of those who have been here before you. 🙂
Peace. — Irene
Amen Irene.
Thank you Irene.
I too was a little taken aback by the harshness of some of the replies…and I have to wonder if it wasn’t the fact that the article started with a bit of bragging. “I’m somebody because Zuckerberg wanted to hire me and I worked at Google.” Poor way to start off this kind of an article.
And they are getting harsher all of the time! Isn’t there a moderator?
I take the middle on this one. I have to agree asking others to support you when you CAN work rubs me wrong. But I also think you have a right to ask. You also have the asset of 60 acres of land. Sell half of it or even five acres. Share what YOU have. It seems selfish to have 60 acres of land THEN YOU want OTHERS to pay your way.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but there is just something about it that bothers me. On the other hand I do like that you are causing others to re think how they live. I will keep watching as things progress.
By the way, I also am building a cabin but work full time in a monastery for $100.00 bucks a month. So, I am not all hot air.
I do wish you the best, and I mean that sincerely.
Andy
Andy, Do you have a blog? I’d be interested to read it if you do. If not, perhaps you’d consider starting one.
Hi Victoria, I don’t have a blog because I think people already read, write, and ‘think’ too much. What is needed, in my opinion, is more time in quiet meditation or zazen. But, that is another topic for another day. I have, of course, considered it and will take another look since you raised the questions.
Here is something interesting. I know of MANY places that give room, board, and $500 to 1,000 a month to work in a retreat center. A couple of years and you have enough to build a home. In addition one might learn something living in a monastery or retreat center for a year. Anyone serious and wanting information, I would be happy to help.
Blessings, Andy
There’s no way to contact you since your name doesn’t link anywhere. I’d be interested in learning what you know. I’m familiar with the Catholic Worker and very nearly took a paid stipend position (very little money, but room and board and full-time work) in Rochester, NY for a women’s and children’s homeless house. Unfortunately, when they accepted my application, they were in a house that allowed dogs (I have a very sweet and mellow and not overly-large St. Bernard), but they were in the process of moving to a new location and discovered that in their new place, they would not be able to have dogs, so I did not go. If you click on my link, it will take you to my blog. On my blog, in the right-hand column, you will find an About Me section, if you click on that to expand it, there will be a contact there. Nice to hear you may start a blog. Please keep me informed. I know what you mean about silence though, that’s for sure.
I agree, he cold sell some of the land. (I don’t know why he needs 60 acres.) Not only would it raise some cash, but it would lower his property taxes.
I just wanted to add: Although it may be nice to have the isolation of being alone in the middle of 60 acres, if you sell some of it and someone else builds a cabin nearby, you may be glad someday if you need some help from a neighbor.
I think this is a great idea! What about leasing an acre or 1/2 acre lots, here and there to other tiny houser who have no where to locate their off grid homes? You wouldn’t have to have them right on top of you… Also being a landlord to like minded people might be fulfilling. What about people who have get away cabins that don’t want to live full there full time. They would feel safer that there was a “grounds keeper” nearby.
Just give it a thought. It isn’t ideal. But, it is workable.
I was thinking, 20 half acre leases @ $100.00 per month would be $2,000 per month. If you feel you no longer want to have people on the land for what ever reason, you just don’t rewnew the lease. I would find out what your state requires. It is good money that you would earn from your land. I know I would love the opportunity to live my dream. You could start a tiny co-op with the leasees. You could have a garden that all could work the land and collecively reap the benefits. And with 60 acres, you could locate the leasers far away from your lil piece of heaven.
I think you’re way out of the ballpark there. First, anyone who’s going to want this land would presumably want to live a similar lifestyle as his, right? I assume that was your intent. Who wants to move out to a place like that to live their wilderness lifestyle with a neighbor less than a hundred feet away (a half-acre square would be a little less than 150 feet a side)? Plus, who’s going to do that and, presumably, build their tiny home there if, as you say, he can just decide to not renew the lease at any time if he decides he doesn’t want people there anymore? And $100 A MONTH??? That’s $200 per acre, per month. I assume people are going to want to stay there for a while. Do you realize what the present value of $200 a month, at 5% interest, for 10 years would be? I’ll tell you – almost $19,000. I can pretty well guarantee you that this land isn’t worth $19k per acre. It’s land that seems to be out in the middle of nowhere, with no utilities whatsoever (and it doesn’t seem that utilities would be a possibility there any time in the near future). I’ll bet for $200 a month you could buy 10 acres of this type of land (probably a lot more depending on the location) and have it paid off in 10 years. I don’t know how much this land would be worth, but as poor as this guy seems to be at planning ahead and managing things, I’m inclined to think that this 60 acres of land had to be on the low side, price-wise.
I admire your desire to embrace a minimalist lifestyle. I applaud your urge to spend months in the wild with nothing but an internet connection hooking you to society.
But, like some of the other commenters, I find it troublesome that you’re asking other people to contribute to your dream without being prepared to make the necessary sacrifices of your own.
You say you have a car payment, you went to Burning Man this summer, but you don’t want to keep working. Well, a great many people — certainly many of us who embrace the LESS IS MORE philosophy that’s so represented by the Small House movement, are obviously in the same pickle.
That’s why you take care of what you need to take care of, so that you CAN change your life. As Dave Ramsey says — go get a job delivering pizzas in addition to your regular job, so you can be DEBT-FREE.
I just think trying to have a car payment and credit card debt and all of that while living off the grid isn’t feasible… as evidenced by the fact that you’re asking others to help sustain your life.
You are blessed in that you have the OPTION of having a job to take care of yourself financially. A great many don’t have that option in today’s economy, and most of them aren’t making a public bid for financial support from strangers — not to fund their everyday existence… and certainly not to fund an escapist dream that they’re unable to make a reality on their own.
I think it’s immature and selfish.
But once you take care of your business and get out into the wild on your own, I will be the first to celebrate your accomplishment — and BUY YOUR BOOK.
–Margo
Amen Margo…You said what I wanted to say…
To add my two cents to the mix. You’re not without options. If you were hard up, I’d consider sending you help, but you’re actually in a very favorable place.
Could you barter your computer skills directly? So if you need a stove or insulation, trade for it.
Going back to the city to gather cash together is not a bad choice either. The delay will give you time to think through your plans more thoroughly. As someone else mentioned you could study more and gather much needed skills. Skills you don’t have yet. (Learning to build your own chiminey?) And you could pick up freebies from craigslist or off the street to use in your house and reduce cash outlay. (Chiminey bricks?) Staying in your place for a month would be more fun, but working in the city for now has far more advantages.
I took $1600 out of my retirement fund and built my 12×24 cabin. It has a roof, 4 walls, a floor, a loft and a heater. It’s in WV in the mountains. I had to go there in December and let me tell you what…it was colder than a well digger’s a$$! I’m gonna have to spend more money to get it insulated and a bigger gas heater. But the good thing is, it’s paid for as I go along and I’m not there full time; I’m not able to just up and quit working to work on it. We do it on ‘5 day vacations’ 2-3 times a year.
If you’re struggling, you aren’t planning correctly. You have too many skills to be asking people for donations and with today’s economy, we all need every cent we can get. Time to make a new plan.
Alice, I asked Andy and I’d like to ask you if you have a blog. Interesting folks such as yourselves have the most fascinating blogs. If not, I encourage you to start one.
I know WordPress won’t let you change the perm link, but pleeeeeease fix the typo in the title (It’s rifle, not riffle).
And I wish you success in finding something that will work so you can follow your dream. Unfortunately sacrificing is typically part of living semi off-grid.
I’m sorry, but I had to laugh. I lived off the grid in an unheated school bus in the winter and survived without anyone’s support. I liked reading all the comments here and I didn’t take offense to any of them. They all make perfect sense, both sides of it. With business associates like yours, programming skills no less, and an Internet connection, you shouldn’t have to ask us for money, you should be able to consult online no problem. I’m no fan of debt either and someone with a land payment, car payment and credit card debt makes me think they need to stay in the city and get their ducks in a row before heading out to the wilderness. Pay off all that debt, actually own everything in your possession, save up to buy the land all at once and never owe anyone a dime again. That’s truly off the grid in all senses. There is reward in patience. And, I’m curious, what happened with the first cabin?
Yes. First Cabin? Good Question.
I forgot to add that there’s no way you’re going to have a true off the grid experience with an Internet connection.
get a job!
Looks like a chord has been struck here, maybe a whole sonata’s worth!
I think some of the most valuable comments are from those who have done and are doing exactly what you want to do, Ryo, except they are doing it in a self-sustainable way. My brother is my hero in this, having bought land he could afford, starting with a trailer, buying a wee cabin that someone ELSE building a house didn’t need anymore to live in while they built and having it moved to the property…then improving it as he could afford it (trips back and forth Fla to NC as he could). Then starting an A frame, which is still in progress…all with the money he saves from his regular job, and all the time (over ten years now) learning from people, blogs, magazines and experience how to do things he never grew up learning. The idea of needing 500.00 for a chimney might seem normal to many or even cheap, but to those of us on the frugality trail, we think wow, bud, there are cheaper ways by far! Ask around!
Anyway, that’s my two cents worth. I think the internet sort of gives us some strange ideas sometimes, what is valid and what is not. While I don’t agree with your original intent, I can easily see where it might be the very best thing to ever happen to you to have these responses to grow from. Best of luck!
Wow! It seems like the real story here isn’t the blog, but the rapid and emotive reaction to it.
You seem inventive and creative. I know you can figure this out. You just have to see the options and possibilities.
And in that you’d be doing us a far bigger favor than letting us share the expenses and experience.
I’m interested in watching people make the effort, prevail, and give us some templates for how to simplify life and get past the next few decades of certain struggle.
@ Margo–I’m so glad you brought up Dave Ramsey. This is a great subject for this post. I heard about Dave Ramsey a year and a half ago and thanks to his plans, I became debt free (except for the house mortgage) and have almost 6 months living expenses saved up. If it wasn’t for Dave’s philosophy of living debt free, I probably wouldn’t have stumbled upon the tiny house blog. My next “weird” idea is to build a small house and be completely debt free with no mortgage. I am the child of baby boomers who passed on to me that it was normal to always have a mortgage and normal to always use a credit card. I am so glad I escaped from that type of thinking. Ryo–I also admire your plans and simple living idea, but I urge you to check out Dave Ramsey and adopt his philosophy in conjunction with simple living.
I know exactly how it feels to be trapped working in conditions you find intolerable for whatever reasons, and how much it hurts to yearn for the life you really want instead. I stuck it out 5 years longer than I wanted until I was debt-free, had paid for a tiny patch of land and set up a tiny shelter, then got whammed with a medical issue that made employment problematical and stopped my project dead in it’s tracks. Between that and family obligations I can’t have my preferred life full time but I’m a lot closer than I was before I started so things are still looking good. The number one thing I can’t recommend enough is to get as debt free as possible, any other decisions are much easier after that and your life will have way more options if something unexpected happens. If it means slugging it out for a bit longer at something you’d rather not do, well, think about it really hard and be glad you have that option. If your land cost so much that you can’t pay it off for years, that’s the one and only thing I’d accept debt on, though I’d try to make sure it was as low a payment as could be managed without paying too much in interest. Any large chunks of cash go to paying down the princpal. The second thing would be to accept creative or temporary substitutions to get things done (as long as they’re safe and healthy) rather than hold out for immediate perfection. It means you get functional right away and you can work on the aesthetics later. Sometimes you end up with an unexpected treasure you wouldn’t change even if you could. Third thing would be to see if anybody else has figured out a solution to any of your problems and adapt or invent accordingly. Stay flexible in body and mind and be ready to pounce on a good deal or do a good deed, it’s amazing where things can go from either one. Best of luck with whatever you end up doing. For the record, I think it’s OK to ask for help or money (just don’t be surprised at any of the reactions)though I wouldn’t do it myself unless I was without my own resources to solve the problem or was offering an exchange of similar value. Bartering is an old and honoured tradition in every corner of the world.
For getting your finances together read:
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/
Wow! I just checked back to see if the author had replied to any thing, and I am amazed at how many people have responded negatively.
About a month ago, I had a bad day, and posted a negative response on this list, actually I was rude. The other people righting in put me in my place.(thanks) now I am going to pass it on.
This guy is trying to change his life, and make it more meaningful and happy. We all have the right to do that. If you don’t want to help him, or even encourage him that’s fine. But you don’t have to berate him because you don’t like his methods or you are jealous of his skills or opportunities.
Advice is fine. I for one will follow his story to see how it comes out.
By asking for handouts instead of doing it himself? Is a life more meaningful and happy if you haven’t accomplished things yourself?
I’m not going to berate him. I’m not jealous of his methods or of his skills or opportunities. I will choose not to make a donation to him because I do not see him as needing my support as others might.
Very mature response, thank you.
As a currently unemployed Economist, I would advise you,Ryo,to get your priorities in order. Any job is always better than none. Even when the cabin is complete, and you are entirely off-grid, there will still be living expenses: Seed stock, tools, clothing, property taxes, medical expenses, property insurance, transportation, etc. Even a mule needs fuel.
Nobody can live for free…ever.
What the Thoreauvian lifestyle offers is a lower living expense,(hence – more freedom) but not zero living expense. There is a fallacy to Thoreau’s philosophy, and that is that self sufficiency exists in isolation. It does not. He borrowed tools, begged materials from others, and his mother did his laundry.
Economics is not ideological, it is a biological imperative that we exchange value for value in order to survive. The example of ISHI who was the last survivor of his entire civilization shows us that a person cannot survive in solitude even as a hunter gatherer. The miracle of his life is that he realized that he would rather die at the hands of his enemies than spend another day alone.
None of these responses has been negative. Everyone wishes you success, but we are all advising you to make a responsible plan. You are on the path, have begun buying the land, are building the house. Patience and planning will make it happen in its own good time. Spend a hundred bucks to wrap the cabin in plastic for the winter, keep doing the job in the city, pay off your debts, and accumulate a cash reserve which will earn you an income through investments in sustainable industries. Be a member, participate in the human race.
“There is a fallacy to Thoreau’s philosophy, and that is that self sufficiency exists in isolation. It does not.”
Well said.
Ryo, find balance.
Congratulations Ryo, on perpetuating the idea that young people expect things to be handed to them for free. I’ve often heard it in reference to young college graduates expecting well-paying, management positions immediately after school, but you’ve taken it a step further by actually expecting people to pay for your lifestyle because you’re too lazy, or find it too burdensome, to be a man and pay your own way. It seems that you could be characterized as a sophisticated pan-handler. You want to live in a cabin out in the woods? Great, find a way to pay for it. I’ve often entertained the notion (who here hasn’t). I realize to do so, I’d need to find clients for whom I could work for mostly from home and at my own hours (I’m an accountant), and I think it would be possible to do so if I ever really got serious about it. I wouldn’t ask for donations from strangers though… I guess I have a little pride in myself.
This pie-in-the-sky idea of life you have doesn’t usually end well. Nobody wants to perpetually fund a slacker who contributes nothing. I think there’s still a bus in Alaska available if you want to live out your wilderness dreams… worked out real well for one other young man with a similar contempt for normal society and a similar inability to plan ahead or actually know what he was doing.
I cant believe you dont have money yet you want to buy car insurance! Car insurance is the worst waste of money ever, and I havent had it for years and have been more than fine. Heat is more important than insurance! I also dont want to work at all and live in my maple forest, but the terrible truth of life is that we are bound by money. Im 29 but am planning on retiring to the maple forest within 2 years.
Well, Ryo, you certainly got our blood pumping here. It’s nice to have a dream, it’s good to work toward that dream, and better when you accomplish the goal. But, the best is doing it on your own. Knowing you don’t owe the success or the comfort to anyone or anything is beyond worth. Learning that truth is something that takes some people a bit of living first.
We all ‘want’ something. Some things you just can’t have, no matter how hard you strive. However, from your post I see that you have the talent and experience with technology to use to make your dream happen. You need to invest in your future. Down payment: work off your debt. If you don’t, you’ll never be self-sufficient. How could you be if you had to worry about losing the land because you couldn’t make the payments?
Next: Work some more and put by the money to ensure that you can pay the tax on the land, for at least 2-3 years.
Then: Figure out how you can earn what you will need to continue. Find your favorite talent and see how you can capitalize on it. So, that way you won’t be working to earn money, you’ll be playing, or creating, or enjoying a pastime that also pays you what you need.
I wish you luck on your journey to maturity and happiness. Take the harder comments above to heart. You don’t need us, nor do you need the similar reactions that you’ll get if you keep trying to have others get your dream for you.
Hello, all, my name is Jordan (I am unrelated to the individual who posted this). I am going to shamelessly request money here, more shamelessly than the guy above (yes, in the comments section of a website). I am not affiliated with this individual. I would like to get off the grid – build a cabin, etc. For this, I need money. If anyone is kind enough to do so, they may donate via paypal to wastedontech@gmail.com . Let me argue against the notion that it is wrong to ask for money:
Most of us spend most of our lives working jobs we hate. Our entire society is constructed in a dehumanizing and anti-egalitarian fashion, contrary to how it has been for the vast majority of human history. The more people are able to transition away from this destructive lifestyle, the faster we can shift the paradigm away from slave jobs and mindless consumption into a healthy, sustainable, nature-connected world. So yeah, if you could help me do that, and by going off the grid and talking to others I hope to inspire them to do the same or alter their lifestyles in some other positive way, that would be great.
Much appreciated,
Jordan aka a random individual who decided to shamelessly ask for money in the comments section of someone else’s post. Oh, and I will start a blog and post on it regularly if I get the funds to get this project going. I will post videos on this blog. And I will correspond with my readers, and assist them.
I too have a dream of living a life unencumbered by the burden of a job and other responsibilities. And if only a couple hundred of you readers out there would forego your expensive morning latte and instead send me a dollar a day, I could realize that dream.
I’m too special to be expected to make it on my own – I need your help.
Is that really necessary? or do you think you are funny?
In my opinion the best book on living free is : Your Money or Your life. The basic idea is to have enough money saved to live off the interest. Or, if you have other forms of income that will also work.
Andy
I’ve read through all of the comments and didn’t see anyone point out that Burning Man was more important to the OP than finishing his shelter before the winter. That told me all I needed to hear.
Or that he’s got tools out in the weather and lots of brand new belongings just sitting out there getting snowed on or not finishing one cabin, but just starting up a new bigger version that’s also not done with no future money plan. I’m not sure how many tools are out there, but I know I can see a very nice, new-looking saw. I know people who would freak if they saw items, especially tools, being treated like that. If debt and running to the store for new purchases so they can be thrown around and ruined is how he thinks he’s going to spend my money, he’s got another thing coming. No respect for money at all or what it buys nor any indication of planning for life.
I too noticed that the summer was spent planting a garden and going to a festival and that his friends didn’t show up until LATE summer. Poor time management. Build every day of the summer and you may not be building in the winter. And don’t spend every dime on building when you won’t have anything to support your daily needs
And if the first tiny house just needed insulation, why not just put insulation in it? Then save that $2,000 to live off of and pay all those ridiculous bills that have no business being out on the land. You do not drag bills of that magnitude out to the wilderness. That’s crazy. He’s a few missed land payments away from kissing everything off that he’s just left half-finished or thrown around.
And he’s offering me 31 days of an off the grid experience when he’ll still be on the grid with an Internet connection. I’ve been off the grid and you cannot have an Internet connection. It is so grid-tied, it’s unreal. So he’s not even offering me my full money’s worth. Why not actually be off-the-grid for those 31 days and then make the posts via the Internet at the end?
Now I don’t want to pick on him to death, but someone asking for money is asking me to invest. When people invest, they scrutinize, so they make the best and most well-informed decision as possible. From what I’ve seen in the photos and read in the article, there’s nothing to indicate it would be a wise investment. It’d just be throwing my good money after his bad money and time management skills and his total lack of respect for possessions.
I work 7 days a week now and I save nearly every dime I make, as well as other sacrifices, to buy again out in the wilderness and I won’t go again until I have enough and then some. I’ve already learned my lesson about how fast it can all disappear or how much a person can withstand physical suffering due to a lack of money. And it hurts too, in the emotional sense. I’ve never been so heart-broken in my life, so I hope Ryu can put all of our good lessons and advice to work for him, so he doesn’t end up out of everything, all of his dreams gone, and heart-broken too.
I give him credit for honesty. He’s certainly exposed himself for all of us to critique, which is unfortunately what is going to happen when you ask for money. I’d really like to see someone asking for money who can provide a solid and honest overview of his or her plan. I’m not against sending money to someone, but they’d have to have a super-solid plan with no holes in it to win my support.
It’s been two days and Ryo has not returned to reply to the comments or defend his position. I’m wondering if he is serious.
Hi Ben, Ryo was heading out to his homestead the day or so before I published this for him. I am assuming he does not have internet connection as I am sure he will want to respond. I notified him via email when it was published. -Kent
If we all would just give some of our hard-earned money to the poor guy (literally and figuratively), he would probably get an internet connection out there. In fact, based on his inability to prioritize and misguided sense of “needs” (like going to Burning Man, as someone earlier pointed out), he’d probably put in an internet connection before doing something like, say, paying on his debt, or buying insurance for the car he drives.
Dear Kent, I have been on both ends of mean spirited posts, I have made them (once, bad day) and now been on the receiving end. Is there a way to block or remove some posts or posters?
Buy the way when I was rude, I apologized.
Hi Liz, yes it is possible to block and edit posts. However I try to keep this as open as possible and usually people act in a mature way on this blog and I have been lucky that way. I will re-read and try to edit out any cruel responses. Ryo has read them and asked me to leave them as is as he figures he can learn and apply suggestions given him by the posters.
Check out ginmar in particular. Of course its up to you, but I don’t think that name calling and hatefulness have a place here. I sure got lambasted for far less.
Buy the way I have been an almost daily reader for several years. I look forward to checking your sight with my morning coffee.Keep up the good work.
To all of the people leaving belittling comments to the man asking for help. Why are you not as hateful in the posts about people building homes for sale at 200% or more over cost? Those people ARE selling those houses. They are selling them to trusting people who do not have the ability or skills to build for themselves. Those builders are profiteers and hustlers, but I get the idea that you would say to them, “Good job. Way to be, taking pride in your work, and being a productive member of society.” You say those builders aren’t asking for a handout like this young man. I say they are a much bigger problem. Yeah, this guy could use resources better, but I could too. I come to this blog to learn, share and experience. He has too. Sometimes money is a part of sharing, most of the time it is unnecessary. He has received some very helpful critiques here, and I’ll bet he will use many of them. He is one of us (homesteaders, tiny housers), not one of them (corporate greed, institutional self-proclaimed authority). He asked for help. He did not ask whether or not you see yourself and your ideas as more righteous than he and his ideas.
What you’re missing here is that he’s not doing anytihng for anybody but himself—oh, hey, and way to sneer at people who are working for a living. What do you think they’re supposed to do, build houses for free?
I am absolutely NOT sneering at people who work for a living. I am a working husband and father. I am just pointing out that none of you nay-sayers here have been so vocal against other, equally (or more) ridiculous, advertisement type of posts in the past. BTW, I specifically said “200%” over their cost.
False. People have the choice to decide whether or not to employ those people. They’re not asking for charity so they can laze around and not work. Those are businesses.
So, you’re saying that we as the onlooking public here don’t have a choice in weather or not we want to give him money in exchange for his gathered information (his blog posts)? There are bloggers all across the world who are paying their way in life through revenue received because of blogging. Last time I checked, that was still legal here. No one, not anyone, no body has to give him money here. We can all freely say no without attacking his character.
200%? Builders should be so lucky… Only the most shoddy of mega-developers ever came near that. That sort are now bankrupt.
Average builders do well to clear 40%, just enough to support their business and family. Your numbers and likely your expectations appear to be somewhat unrealistic… Rather like the man in question’s seem when one actually reads his blog.
Thomas H.’s comment on the subject speaks for me also.
Anne, I hope that when you said, “builders should be so lucky,” you were being sarcastic. (For what it’s worth, I think that’s how you meant it) In the house on wheels world, things are different. These builders are not subject to the same building codes. This is a huge part of their appeal. I was merely referring to some of the homes on wheels that have been advertised here at ridiculously high prices. We know they are ridiculous because they are priced more like conventional homes (like the mega-developers would do), and not priced at 40% over what other owner/builders here have told us they are spending to build very similar structures.
You did not specify houses on wheels. They are largely a fad. And as such will garner the amount of revenue they can for as long as they can.
If they ever become main-stream off-trailer homes, I suspect they will hover around 60-70% for builder constructed ones. Reasonable upgrades for the time/energy saved from having to build ones own.
Was I being sarcastic? No. Because I was under the impression that you had been deluded into thinking that the average home builder made that level of profit. Which they do not.
60% is reasonable. I think 200% is a hustle. Apparently you do not. You are implying that you see that as good business. If that is true, you stand in contrast to the opinions of the overwhelming majority of tiny house movement supporters I have been watching and reading about.
Good business? No. Business? Yes. What the market will allow is what will be charged. Reality sucks, don’t it? Give it a couple years and then you won’t have to be concerned about it…
For the same reason PCs cost thousands a decade ago and less then $500 today. Things change.
Yes Anne, these things happen every single day. My whole point in originally posting about this was that you nay-sayers were not being consistent in who you decide to belittle. Are you going to, from now on, reply with negative comments toward all people advertising ridiculous money transaction propositions on this blog? If so, I would ask, why are you even reading this blog if Kent is offending you by the people, stories, and petitions he is making public here?
Mostly because it does not offend me. I like that Kent offers assorted options and views on the movement… BTW, some do complain about cost, advertising, etc. I assume you are relatively new?
No one has belittled Ryo, merely had issues with his methods.
Anne,
First, I apologize for some of my statements being a little heated. I honestly think your criticisms have been fair. The reality is that I don’t know this guy or his intentions very well at all. I do hope that he has honorable intentions in all of this, and until he proves me wrong, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
As for the belittling part, Josh called him lazy and Ginmar called him a princess. And, while I guess Ryo is a big enough boy to handle having such terms thrown his way, I felt as though there needed to be some balance leveraged against the rude comments.
Ryguy,
Which small house builders are you referring to? Or should I ask, which builders are out there not only to make a living and pay the bills, but, want to help make our dreams of owing a house within our grasp? Which are the most buyer friendly?
Oh, by the way, loved the link, music sounded great.
Kaitlyn,
Thanks for the kind compliment. That means a lot to me and my wife.
As for the builders, I don’t intend to play judge on those that I find to be in love with their prices. Without naming names, a few pricey posts that come to mind are the $95k park model, a couple of over $300 a square foot homes, a $500k r.v., and sleek pop-up camper. The point was that I didn’t see Josh or Ginmar calling them names or ranting about their shortcomings.
Some builders with good price points I like are Peter King, Sing RV, and a few of the yurt companies. I come here mainly for the owner/builder stories and the over all well roundedness of inspirational ideas Kent has gathered.
yeah, RyGuy,
Your music is beautiful, I’m buyin it!
UrbanRancher,
Thank You. Sincerely, Thank You.
You and Kaitlyn made our day.
I am bewildered by the request; but it seems appropo for the tiny house movement. People building tiny trailer houses and then parking them on someone else’s land. Building their dream by using someone else. It just doesn’t make sense.
Go back to work. Live with multiple roommates. Pay off your credit cards, your car and save, save, save to build your house. Then, move back to your land knowing that you are truely free.
Dependence is not freedom. Using someone else’s land, water and electricty is not “simple and green,” it is just transference. If the building codes do not allow you to build 100 sq feet, then build the smallest thing the building code allows. Then, lobby to change the laws. Or get yourself elected to the city counsel and propose new laws.
Just my thoughts. I hope I’m not being too harsh.
Not at all harsh. Merely realistic. Well said in fact.
WOW, this is a tempest in a teapot!
Since I’ve followed Ryo from the beginning, I’ll throw my two cents into the mix…
I have NO problem with Ry soliciting funds but the sad truth is I doubt many folks in our self-reliant circle would lay out money so Ry can avoid going back to a job.
I do agree that the younger generation expects so much to be handed to them but sadly the rubber will eventually hit the road when they are forced to earn their own way (just wait til the social security bomb explodes, you crazy kids!)
For as far back as I’ve been following Ryo, his lack of planning, shoddy execution, and ADHD-style of homesteading has surely led him to this place.
There are methods and ways of building and planning. They’ve been time tested and developed over hundreds of years, honed into the most efficient way to execute building a cabin, farming a plot of land, and yes, following one’s dreams.
Quite simply put, Ryo looks like he’s trying to forge his own path and re-invent the wheel (as an earlier post said). Sadly it seems that reality is catching up. I suspect his exeriment in self-sufficiency is about to fail.
I truly do hope (and I’m sure most of us feel the same) that Ry will re-evaluate, focus, learn and re-group. Life’s lessons are best learned the hard way and judging by the condition of Serenity Valley’s 2 ramshackle huts, those lessons are harder for some than for others.
Bite the bullet my hardy cyber-friend, and strike out in whatever direction your heart leads you.
There are no wrong turns or choices in life, only regrets.
As my Kaballah instructor told me back in teh 90’s when Kaballah was trendy…”when faced with a choice, the right choice is ALWAYS the most difficult of your options.”
and hot damn, me learn dat he be right.
go Ry, go!
Hi All,
Thank you for all your thoughtful and insightful comments. I apologize for not having been able to respond sooner — as Kent mentioned, I was on my property, where I don’t (yet) have an internet connection, and didn’t find out that my post had gone up until today.
I would also like to thank those who did contribute (you know who you are). To the rest of you, I will take your advice to heart. If you’d like to see where my journey ends up, please check back on my blog in a few month’s time.
’til then,
Ryo
laptopandarifle.com
Just sell some of your sweet rifles, and replace them in a few years down the road if you really need to. Good luck
Have you not read Thoreau’s “Walden”? Do not re-invent the wheel.
I bet we never hear from this guy again, on this sight. Those of us who are curious will have to go to his blog. You would be a fool to let yourself in for this kind of lambasting again.
When I embark on this adventure my self, I will certainly think twice about posting about it here, and if I do write about it for tiny house, I wont check the comments, that for sure. which is too bad because I would probably get some good and useful advice from some of you.
I am closing comments, time to move on to something else and I am hoping Ryo gives us an update in a few months.