Tiny Houses Suck!
This is a guest post and reprint from a fairly new blog in the Tiny House Community. The blog is called the Tiny House Life and brings a new angle to our growing community. This is very interesting read and provokes some thoughts. What is your reaction? What do you think? Please comment below. Here is the article…
No the website hasn’t been taken over by Russian Hackers, they are trying though, No you haven’t entered into the twilight zone or some rift in the Space-Time continuum. But I was answering an email of a reader who asked about Tiny Houses and hurricanes. It got me thinking….
I am a very opinionated person, I love debate; What I love even more is debating an indefensible position. I like to indulge the opposing view on strongly held beliefs, so that I can see if my stance needs adjustment or potentially, I could be wrong about it all. The point is, I try not to only listen to people who agree with me on things. It is like a Christian (let’s not get bogged down by the topic of religion on this example) talking with an Atheist about God, it allows both parties to test their views, to adjust their idea and bring new thoughts to both sides. So here it goes!
Tiny Houses are completely impractical! They are too small to be a viable option for a normal person’s needs. From the get-go, you instantly outcast yourself because of social norms and influences. Social norms, regardless of if they are right or wrong, still exist and to go against them, will be to your disadvantage.
There are tons of examples of how going against the grain with your tiny house can impact you in a negative way. With your tiny house, you often have to live under the radar of building code and tax assessors. This poses a big risk if you are discovered and turned in. Potentially you could be removed from your own land; you could be charged fines/back taxes or at the very least, your neighbors could begrudge you.
Since you have to build your house and keep it on land where building codes prohibit it being there and you don’t pay your taxes because you haven’t been assessed, you are, by law, illegal. You are no longer a law abiding citizen. Your neighbors will never appreciate someone who doesn’t pay thousands of dollars in taxes, like they have to, but still uses all the services of the town/city.
Speaking of money, many people will see a tiny house as a cheapskate’s way to live. In this world, unfortunately money talks, you have to have it and without it, you can’t do much in this world. Let’s say you are a single male, you met this great girl. After a few dates, things are going well, which leads to you bringing her home. What the hell is she going to think when your car is bigger then the house you live in? Even if she goes with it, it’s possible at this point that you might have been drinking on your date, but now – as you make your way to the bed – you somehow have to navigate a tiny ladder and hope not to break your neck.
Even if she goes for it, even if she has a good time, what is she going to do the next morning? Go tell her friends. Now if you are in a hippy town, you might be able to capitalize on this, but for the majority of you, this will not be the case. That girl is going to tell her friends who will then make a comment like “so he lives in a mobile home?” or “is he so cheap he can’t afford a house?” or “he sounds immature, he needs to get his life in order”. Regardless of how great of a time she had social norms will force her to never talk to you again.
Bigger IS better, bigger house, bigger bank account, more space to store things you just have to have, and a bigger rock on your fiancés finger. If you can’t do all these things, your social and professional life will suffer. If people at work find out that you live in a house on wheels, they will think of you as homeless, a transient, and most likely think that you live the way you do because you managed your money so poorly.
Why would a person making $70k a year live in a 100 square foot house unless they were so broke that they had to? This will come back on you; your boss starts to wonder how well you can actually handle a budget, because in your personal life your finances are managed so you seem “poor”. Even if you explain it, that it was a choice, it is from so far left field that no one will believe you.
Lacking of space for key things is a huge issue. There are some things you simply have to have which take up a lot of space: a washer and Dryer, a real toilet, regular fridge. All these things take up allot of space. They are necessities and not having them is not practical. Doing laundry at a laundry mat is a pain in the ass, it costs a chunk of change and undoubtedly there is that one really sketchy person who feels the need to talk your ear off! A small fridge and no pantry means you have to make extra trips to the store for things you can’t fit, here’s to saving the environment.
The biggest concern is safety/liability. Living in a tiny house means that it is very susceptible to high winds, severe weather and if a tree fall on your roof, you’re dead! Fires can rip through the entire house in no time flat and being that it’s on a trailer; people can steal your whole house! Take this and compound it with the fact that you can not insure it, you essentially have a $20k-$50k liability.
Of course all these things don’t matter unless you have a fat bank account, because you can’t get a loan to build it. No bank will take on this loan; it is an unsecured loan because the house, in a normal market has literally no value.
So to sum it up. Living in a tiny house means several things: You are cheap, you social and professional life will suffer, which means you seemed “poor” but you are now actually are poor. Forget about getting married, because her family will never approve, and her friends will call you cheap. Your house will be swept away in a flash flood and you didn’t have insurance on it so you are out 10’s of thousands of dollars. All in all it doesn’t make a strong case for tiny houses.
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you simply have to have which take up a lot of space: a washer and Dryer, a real toilet, regular fridge.
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I go to a laundromat for my clothes and I only have a fridge that is 4′ high two’ wide and 2′ deep.
I find if I had a bigger place, the more useless junk I would have and more cleaning I would have to do. lol
Dear Miss Informed,
Like you, I enjoy good and fair debate. I appreciate your willingness to put yourself out there and say what others have not said or, possibly, even considered. Thanks for the feedback and this opportunity to rip you a new body part…
You ignorant slut! Anyone familiar with the term “napoleon complex” and its inverse connotation knows that men who live in tiny houses are particularly well-endowed and popular with the ladies. Our bank accounts and social networks are no less ample, as the money saved on inordinate mortgage payments goes straight into our pockets, and people love smart rich guys.
It’s like that old rap song says…
If ‘yr ‘lookin for trouble , well look to the mirror
‘Cause the trouble we’re in, it didn’t start here.
The problem is the house that you run.
It’s ‘emmitin lots of shit, like you don’t give one.
Bigger ‘aint better. It’s just more hassle.
So, if ‘ya think ‘yr king of ‘yr castle,
Well think once again, ‘cause it’s ‘rulin you.
You’re slave to a mortgage and a vacume cleaner too.
Now stop ‘bein sad, and don’t be whiny.
You’re just mad cause mines so tiny.
Yeah, my house is small, and it’s phat.
It’s green, and it’s lean. Chicks dig it like that.
Peace out, Madam. I said, good day!
Jay – not certain that the article required the “ignorant slut” response. Several areas pointed out are key. Not exactly the best bachelor pad in the world. Also not convenient if you want to entertain friends on either a rainy or cold evening. If you have kids then more considerations and potential problems. I grew up in a small house without running water, an outside shower house and outhouse. (Many challenges) At the age of 14 I built my room
at the house 7×5 from repurposed materials. The
house has since been razed and replaced by a modern ranch by new owners. We lived on top of a hill with magestic views. We could see 30 miles out over a valley and the Kentucky River.
I have read many articles on the tiny houses and there does appear to be some stigmatism. Several people are using electric or showers at friends or families houses. Many are just get aways – not full time living spaces. Far from a real home type of situation.
Your Tumbleweed pre-built houses run about $400 per square foot. Not exactly cheap either. (* I realize that a person could build their own much cheaper. *)
I really like small living and looking forward to being off the grid, generating my own power, on 100 acres near my childhood home. To really evolve the movement needs to show not just frugal living but luxurious and comfortable living in a much smaller and more eco friendly footprint. True downsizing and a path to a richer more full life with all of the comforts of home.
Just my .02
Fair ‘nuf, Tim.
It does seem clear that Ryan is not ignorant, and he isn’t a slu… well, he certainly isn’t ignorant. And I’m sorry for calling him “Miss Informed”, but I do have trouble taking this “debate” seriously, as his points are so ridiculous (for a smart guy) that I thought this was surely just a facetious invitation to more facetiousness and obscure SNL references about ad hoc fallacy.
You do raise some good points yourself though.
1. A lot of folks have somehow gotten the idea that living in a tiny house demands reading by candlelight and pooping in a bucket. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hot and cold running water, wifi and hot tub(s) are all available options.
2. There’s no denying that, all else being equal, smaller houses do cost more per square foot. The most expensive Tumbleweed Houses cost about $400 p.s.f. if you pay someone else to build them for you (as you so aptly mention) and even the low end ones cost about half that (as should also be mentioned).
At the core of most any dwelling you will generally find that the electrical system, plumbing, heating, appliances and structural components are similar in at least one key way. They are all expensive. This costly core is housed in the relatively cheap volume that surrounds it. Because the price of extending core components outward to accommodate any amount of additional space really isn’t all that high, and open space itself is priced at next to nothing, square footage is really the cheapest thing you can add onto a house.
Then, of course, there are the long term costs.
3. I don’t know where people get the idea that that anything is expressly precluded from smaller homes. If one wants room to entertain dozens, then there can be room to do so. If one feels more confident believing that extra square footage will impress their date, then extra square footage is clearly available. The only definition for a “tiny house” that I’m aware of is the one I and others in the Small House Movement have been using for over a decade. Tiny houses are houses in which all of the space is being used by the occupant(s), be it 400 or 4000 square feet. If something you require to be happy is missing from your tiny home, it ‘aint home.
actually the perfect bachelor pad….helps weed out the materialistic ones!
Best response EVAR!
The author pointed out some negative veiws that others may have. To me he understood all of those points can be overcome with planning. The only point that is absolute is there would be less space to deal with. The point he made is, know that it is a lifestlye change.
Attempt at being didactic most likely. In a small-minded sort of way.
Small minds Suck!
I live with my partner, two dogs, and a cat in a 34′ fifth-wheel RV, less than 300 square feet. We have a washer/dryer, fridge/freezer, full bath, central heat/air, microwave, oven, high speed internet, cable, flat screen televisions, and room to sleep four people comfortably. We didn’t give up any real creature comforts; we just enjoy them in a significantly smaller space, a space we’ve adapted to nicely.
The choice to move into an RV was one that took a lot of planning and big hanges in our lifestyles. We got rid of most of the “stuff” and frankly don’t miss it. So the whole argument about having more “stuff” isn’t compelling for us. The departure from conspicuous consumption has been liberating.
Your argument about being looked down upon by peers, coworkers, and family doesn’t hold water, either. Sure, we have some friends and acquaintances who think we’re a little kooky, but most folks have voiced some envy about our decision. They understand that we have freedoms that they don’t, and we don’t have some of the worries (or liabilities) that regular homeowners do.
There is some hardship involved in living in an RV (mostly to do with maintenance, dealing with utilities, and being concerned about extreme weather conditions), but that hardship is outweighed by the pleasure we take in knowing that we can go where we like when we like and take our entire home with us when we go.
I would love to know more about how you moved into an RV.
I am either doing the TGC or an RV.
I’d love to know more and KUDOS!
Small houses might surely help save the planet. That is the bottom line. The smallest one on this blog is just a tiny bit bigger than the apartment I had in Korea – which is usually shared by 2 or 3 people; many homes in the far east are indeed of this size. Of course, even small homes come in different sizes to choose from.
Only in America (the United States of) is it considered middle class to inhabit 3000 square feet of climate controlled vinyl and fiberglass. Tiny houses are not so tiny. Close to 2/3rds of the world raises families in one to five rooms from less than 120 square feet to maybe 1200 square feet, without air conditioning. Many of these families are well educated and wealthy by US standards. Many work from sunrise to sunset to gather enough calories to keep their families. from starving. All live in small houses without or with litte refridgeration. And they are very green. The small notebook computer in my lap leaves a much larger carbon foot print than almost any stone wood or masonary building built before the 20th century. To tiny can be a pain, but normal sized is having a tremendous impact on our currenty quality of life and the enviroment we leave our children.
I’m really glad you went this direction with this: there are people below the poverty line in this country who have more things, more space and more food than people well above it in others. It’s very much a matter of perspective and proportion. Since Tiny House people choose to live Tiny, it gives them a great deal more ownership over their lifestyle.
I’m not really sure what the point of the “Just Say No” article was – it seems really strange to me that anyone would consider a Tiny House without having thought many of these things through and having clear values associated with them. For example, the thought process about not getting a girl seems ridiculous to me. 1) Some Tiny House people must be women. Sexist. 2) Having chosen to live in a tiny house, there must be a motivator – environment, economy, personal growth, etc. Would you want to hook up with someone who couldn’t or wouldn’t respect that?
My only real reservation is safety. I live in Kansas and this here is tornado country. Also, a single woman in a Tiny House would seem susceptible to abuse to me. But I love the concept and idea of it, and I figured out a long time ago that I don’t need a lot of space. In my largest house, I used one room consistently, plus the kitchen and the bath. I could totally do a Tiny House if it wasn’t for the legitimate safety concerns I have.
A woman in any circumstance is susceptible but we are also tool users (as long as she lives in a country/society that gives women equal rights to own herself). I certainly can afford the five pounds of pressure it takes to use my favorite tool.
)
This isn’t a debate as much as a clash of paradigms. Anyone who firmly believes bigger is better, money is the measure of success and the opinions of others count more than one’s internal compass is simply operating from a different set of values and standards for what constitutes the good life. It’s not worth the waste of time and energy to argue the point.
I’m still laughing at Jay Shafer’s reply…you ignorant slut. Remember that? I didn’t know he was such a funny guy. Yet she did have some good points. The legality of a tiny house here on Long Island, NY is definitly an issue. But we have overcome!!!
yea that jay schaffer is a real card and i think he has it right i may be able to afford a big house but i just dont need it i would rather have my car,truck,bank account,freedom from debt,ability to travel,and very little worry everybody should try this ime giving it a go peace!!!!
Who ever wrote this article is clearly indicative of a greed mongering capalist mindset that will no longer work in the coming years. People have a right to live anyway they want and should not be ostracized for it. It’s pointless to take more then you need (size of housing, stuff, etc.) and besides if they want to live small so they can live large in other areas of their life WHO ARE YOU TO CONDEMN and JUDGE? I see you don’t even have the balls to put out a name (real or not) to your post. My dear man your perspective and philosophy is a ancient relic and thank goodness – on death’s door.
Minds are like parachutes, they only function when open.
Can I build a tiny house now, if I promise to add a three-car garage later?
My neighbors already resent me for not paying property taxes. My state’s laws exempt disabled veterans with a high enough rating from the VA. I’ve never been one to let societal norms bother me, anyway. Going smaller isn’t proving to be all that bad so far.
After forty years of marriage and living in a variety of tiny stuff as small as 56 sq. ft. and never bigger than 600 sq ft., my only comment is that the very tiny does not serve the cycles of life very well. It is hard to deal with any health crisis with a loft and the toilet down stairs. Wheel chairs and caring for aging parents can also make a sudden need to change dwellings if you live in something to small to be flexible. Really… These are all problems that can be dwelt with especially if there is always someone that wants to move into that which one is vacating.
youre nuts…not up for debate
AHAHA Jane, you ignorant slut!!! Caught that because my mom taught me to love oldschool SNL.
I love devil’s advocate…it really does help refine your viewpoint and give you depth of understanding in the debate.
When I was trying to write something last month for THB (sorry I am so slow Kent) it ended up going from “27 Reasons Why I Love My Tiny House” written by my inner optimist, to “270,000 Reasons Why I Probably Should Hate My Tiny House (But Don’t…Most Days…)” My inner pessimist straight up took over and I didn’t finish my story, because I thought it’s no good to be negative. But this makes me see it’s untrue!
Everything matters. all the negative reactions/ assumptions about tiny houses turned into humor is really healthy… (“…people think if you live in a tiny house you have to read by candlelight and poop in a bucket” LMFAO…)
Make a list of positive aspects and advantages of a tiny house/tiny lifestyle and it turns easily into a list of complaints about it… all the flaws and disadvantages, legal concerns… and then flips just as easily back. Right now I can think of at least 27 Reasons Why My Tiny House (Doesn’t Actually) Suck (All That Much…Most Days)
I will finish it Kent, I promise!
I am dreaming of they day we finish and move into our ‘tiny home’ We went from an 800 ft bungalow (family of 4 with 2 dogs) to a 1600sf home .The latter, is the largest house i’ve ever lived in and we only use about 600 sf ft of it. With THAT being said, thats how big out tiny home with be. I agree with several of the previous posters that its seems to be about whats important to you. I LOVE having money to do things, which is why i’d rather spend the $1200 i’m saving on rent, on somethign a little more worth while.. P.S Yes, all my friends think i’m kooky and eccentric, but thats why they love me ;0)
I am an actual poor person who WANTS a tiny house, and who sought out this blog, so I am very happy to have found it.
To me, the points made in this post scream out for the need to reform our housing, zoning, and building codes, which currently pretty much preclude for the poor building wealth through home ownership. (The “poor” homeowners often cited by conservatives (as apparent evidence that the “poor” are actually quite well off) mostly did not buy their homes on the open market while poor – roughly one-third are retirees who bought their homes during their working years, and a substantial number inherited their homes or bought under preferential terms from relatives.)
One should ask whether there are valid reasons for the code provisions which hinder the development of tiny houses.
I once lived in a tiny guest house behind a larger single-family home. My guest house was legal, but when the property was sold, I was unable to buy the guest house (which I could have afforded had it been offered separately because both houses were on one lot and the lot could not legally be split.
Go ahead and try to defend this practice, but it’s not right and not the sort of practice on which our nation was founded.
You hit a note that has left me flustrated. With my limited means,I asked the town to let me have a cargo Container home on my property,down the road from the main house I would live in this, and sale the main house with the understanding that I could live on the property in the container house until death when this would become the buyers, also. Building code would not let me help myself. So, now I have to sale my place and find another place, causing me extra expense. Maine use to be a free place to help ones self until the MASS people with their codes and regulations moved up here to get away from the mess they made in Mass, only to infect us with their miserable way of life- I have one appeal, but I know the writing is in the sand-I’ll have to move Anyone know where there is a sm plot of unregulated land in WV? thanks
p.s. to those concerned that people in tiny homes don’t pay property taxes:
One more good reason to make them legal! I would the THRILLED to own a tiny home and to pay property taxes on it!
I currently rent a room in a 3BR house, the property tax rate on the house is 4 times the rate on the owner-occupied house next door. (That’s right, rental prop here is taxed 4 times the rate on owner-occupied homes.) So I could save money on property taxes by owning a tiny house!
100 sq ft is a bit too small for me ,but 600 sqft is very comfortable and affordable .
Has any one thought of putting a group together to finance And insure tiny homes ?
I lived in a 3,000 SF home (for 4 years) my ex-husband built against my wishes. I always felt the house was too big and preferred a smaller one.
When we separated and on our way to divorce, he mentioned how he was going to fight hard to keep the house because he knew it was what his then 23 year old, much younger than him, “mistress” wanted.
He was puzzled when I laughed and said “why fight? You can have it along with all the crap in it” (in exchange of course for keeping all the debt).
My girlfriends/family were in shock that I wasn’t fighting for the house. But at 40 years of age, and much wiser, i knew what i was doing.
Since my name wasn’t on the note and since I knew how much of a hassle and costly it was to mantain such a large house, I had no problems letting it go.
We’ve been divorced now for 4 years. He has filed bankruptcy and his mistress (now live-in girlfriend) fights with him all the time. She refuses to pay any bills or clean up the house, stating that the upkeep is “too much work” and too “costly”. He can’t afford to do all the things she “fantasized” about such as trips to Europe and so forth.
As for me? I live with my two children and my fiancee in a very comfortable 1,500 SF home (which we bought for a little over 100K) located in a very nice neighborhood.
Could we have gone a little smaller? Sure. Although I know we wouldn’t be very comfortable in anything less than 1,200 sf. Before we moved into this house we lived in a 2 bedroom, 1000 s.f. apartment for 6 months with a 16 year old and a 6 year old. Due to age difference not a good idea to share rooms.
Good. On. You.
No where does our cultural obsession with things, money and space to show them off become more obvious than in divorces. I’m always in support of the person who says “That’s just stuff, I need my Soul back, thanks.”
Good for you. Your quality of life will be better for it. I’m proud to see other women not conforming to the consumerism that is supposed to make us “good americans”.
The trouble I am having is finding land that has no restictions at a cheap price. My wants are well water and rural with NO restrictions. This is not easy, since my last buy, there are so many regulations put on people. Where are people living in these houses,or shipping containers? I ran the shipping container by the board in my town of rural Me of 700. It didn’t fly-
Sandy, a little research on (ISBU) Integrated Steel Building Unit and on Container Bay will give you enough links to show any building department that the engineering has been proven 100 times. A local engineer should be able to stamp simply drawn plans. There are some fantastic designs out there now.
Has anyone considered Alaska? I live up here and will be buying land outside of Anchorage. I’ve got family who owns property in the area that I’m looking to buy and they said they baught it because of little or no regulations when it came to building a cabin.
This seems like a well-informed and insightful group, most of whom seem to have a sense of humor. With that in mind, I’ll give you my standard line: “Come visit Alaska, but don’t move here. It’s really cold.” You must realize there are reasons us Alaskans live here; mostly I say that to keep our population low. However, it really is cold here.
Two of us and two dogs live in a converted ATCO office trailer, while we build a 1500 sq. ft. house on land that we own. Yep, the land has very few restrictions. That part is the dream. The reality is that today it’s NEGATIVE 8 degrees Fahrenheit, a warm winter day for Fairbanks Alaska.
We live off the grid, and finally have the basic utilities functioning: Electricity, oil drip stove for heat and cooking, outhouse, 5 gallon jugs for water, and showers at other locations. The self-imposed self-sufficiency requires us to live simply, but it takes a stunning amount of time to keep all this running in the winter – a reality that you who live off the grid already know. But I digress. My point is the cold.
Our next house will have running water & an indoor potty, so now we have some challenges. You have to make sure it will all work reliably in the cold. You have to insulate A LOT (plan is for 10 inch R40 walls, more in the ceiling). Redundant heating is standard here. Everything in AK costs more than the lower 48, including building materials. All this this special effort against the cold cost a lot more than if we were down south where it may occasionally get below freezing.
So regardless the land restrictions, if you are considering moving here, come VISIT in the winter first, just to see if you’re nutty enough to be one of us.
it seems like the tumbleweed house called new valecia with the extra bed room would be the perfect size house for all stages of some ones life. first stage you have the single stage, you could choose to live in the loft so you could make the extra bed into a sitting area. next, married stage, same arrangement would work. next stage, married with children, the extra room would turn into a childerns room, because you will be having less free time due to the kids you wont need the extra entertaining space. next stage, kids move out, by this time you will most likely be having a hard time getting into the loft so you would move into the extra room yourself and keep the loft full of all the stuff that empty nesters cant seem to get rid of. there you all stages of life. sorry if this is long winded
Rather than a couch, try a daybed – with underbed storage. This is great for the elderly or a child.
oh and if you do make $70,000 a year you could probably afford to pay cash for one of these houses if you worked it right.
I live in a very large (by my towns standards) and i hate it.
I had allway been under the impression that I would allways be a slave to rent or mourgage, so like most people i work harder to pay for what i have and go without some of the things I want to the cost of this place that cost so much i cant afford to entertain. or even be intertained.
enter jay shafer. this uy is my new hero. I can now see a way out!
I did worry about some of the legal aspects.but I quickly found ways around them, I
i have been doing my research on all aspects of tiny living. it is for me!
as far as the narrow minded idiot that chose to write that artical, i hope his/her opinion doesnt change. they can live the life i currently but temperarrily live. that whould be punishment enuff! lol and as far as finding a mate to share like minded veiwpoints. hasnt been a problem here?
but i dont date shallow minded money grubbing plastic idiots. if that makes me kooky so be it.
yes $400 a.s.f is a bit much! but very little research will show that can be decreased alot! i’m curently at 87 sq.ft. but it took alot of planning. amd amazingly alot of help from friends. i.e roofers, framers,electrician. etc. wich all gave me left over materials do to my house being only 8′x20′
Hey everyone,
Two thoughts for those anti or pro small housing.
1) Chill out folks, young and old designers alike are addressing these difficult problems of socio-economic abuse, the answers are near.
2) Patiently dream big, the internet will speed up our development, perfecting designs in minutes instead of months.
Sincerest hope,
Johnny
If you’re building because of what your neighbors think, you’re an idiot.
If you really believe that a bigger house means bigger bank account, how did the housing debacle begin. Idiots buying big houses they couldn’t afford.
*Luxury is a state of mind.
*My luxury is an extra day off from work to take better care of my health and family.
*My luxury is time to take better care of my things so that I never have to buy them again.
*My luxury is a clean home and thus a clear mind.
*My luxury is walking in the forest and lounging under a tree.
*My luxury is a packet of seeds.
*My luxury is a spool of crochet thread and having the time to create.
*My luxury is simplicity.
Live and let live…
I like that di said luxury is having an extra day off ora packet of seeds. Hear here I say
To share expense, I suppose you could change a large home into a boarding house – with a communal kitchen and bathroom. This is very popular around a college. There are many ways to create areas of privacy. Living in one room of small expense is peace of mind.
I JUST spent the last 6 weeks doing that!!!! I have a super insulated, tight designed Cape SPEC house, I haven’t been able to sell even at a losing $70K price. So finally just set it all up from craig’s list & Salvation Army, to rent furnished rooms, Cornell U. Now have some VERY neat & interesting people moved in! PHD’s From Canada, China, & Grad student grad Calif, a writer to finish a book later.
Now to finally get back to working on my RV trailer to Tiny House Trailer project again.
For the sake of the environment, we need to change nation-wide zoning laws – perhaps at a federal level. Does such an organization already exist?
Safety and sanitation codes are needed, but size seems to be an unnecessary impingement to the environment.
Would citizens, with homes on wheels, be willing to pay a fair share of the taxes?
What are some “average” nationwide statistics – how big does a house have to be to acquire insurance?
I’d like to err on the side of tolerance here. Name calling is both unproductive and abusive. Unless of course Bill Murry does it…
The writer of this article, playing devil’s advocate or not, has made some valid points.
I’ve personally lived in palatial spaces (as a child), and in tiny spaces (as an adult) such as a tipi, a 16′ travel trailer, and a 9 X 14′ cabin in the florida rural countryside.
I’ve been demoted and then fired from a job as a secretary when my supervisor chanced to see my trailer. Priviously, I’d been given a good review and a raise, however I think it was assumed that I or my husband must have been a drug addict for us to be so poor. Either that or mentally ill. Obviously untrue, however there are social norms that can affect us whether we admit it or not.
I’ve been denegrated by peers in a spiritual group who saw the trailer as evidence of ‘an immature and chaotic lifestyle’.
The tipi was too wacky for most folks, but it was the best time of my life! However, as I was married at the time, I didn’t have the dating problems. I did, however, have to deal with food storage and hauling water, as we were on the side of a mountain and had no utilities to speak of. Not to mention laundry! Same with the cabin.
It’s true. It was all a serious pain.
The 34 foot fifth wheel is a very nice large space, and you can fit all those wonderful appliances into it. However smaller than this may not allow for all of it.
The point being, is that there are definitely hardships involved with the choice to go very small. They may or may not be worth it, based on your personal values.
However, tinier and tinier appliances and conveniences are becoming more common, allowing for more comfort on a small level. Solar pods are much more easily available, as are personal wind turbines for off grid energy.
How green do you want to be, and how patient are you? How honest are you willing to be with yourself about the pros and cons of your choice, as well as your own limits?
Just my thoughts…..
I don’t think living in a tiny house is for everyone. Personally I think I’d be content in about 300-400 sq ft, but right now I’m living in 1400 and it’s way too big. I don’t even have furniture for most of it and don’t need to. I occupy very few square feet at a time and don’t have the need to move around to different sections of my house very often.
The author speaks of having bigger and better things, but those are just headaches. Why would I want a bigger ring that I had to finance? A bigger car payment, a bigger tax liability, insurance premiums, etc? I don’t work to own junk that needs to be stored/replaced/used. I work so that I can be self sufficient one day and not require full time employment..all I need is a place to sleep, a space to create, a few pieces of clothing and some food.
all of his arguments were completely full of holes. I don’t think he thought his blog post out very much and it seemed more like he was aiming to argue rather than to contribute to the debate.
Find me one person who can prove more is better…anyone?
Richard,
I’ve got a tiny house and a tiny trailer house and a full size house.
For me the point of a tiny house is to be outside as much as possible. But if you have to be indoors there are many many reasons that bigger can be better. My baby boy and I can play soccer in the kitchen then he can go to sleep in his room, while my wife laptops in the living room while I do work in the garage or the office or go take a private bath and stretch in the bedroom. We can have guests or another kid.
I’ve lived in a backpack, motorcycle, tent, cave, van, pier, happily slept on the ground for years and love the lifestyle. I think”all good things in all good times”. I’ll be back in my luxury tiny shed in 6 feet of snow this winter loving it but I wouldn’t want to have to raise my kids in it in the winter….fair points?
“The scale of your home should be derived from the real needs of your daily lives, not from vanity, insecurity, or a need for public display. Home should be the setting of your life, not the measure of it.” ~unknown~
I lived in an eight man tent in Africa. My space was about 6 x 7 tops. That was if you could push your stuff completely to the tents platform edge.
I found that I had everything I needed. I had a great space. I snagged an old military bunk bed on a trade. Took out the bottom bunk and expanded my space. Thats were I fell in love with small living. It was sooooo much easier. Some thing in, something out method helps.
I found that I don’t NEED to have all the trimmings & the huge space to make OTHER people feel better. To be frankly honest with you, I don’t care to have those types of judgmental people around me. I have lived a life that was expected of me. I played the keeping up with the joness game and it is senseless! I have been through a lot and finally at 50 realize that the only person that matters is me and what I think.
and, further more if they would change the laws regarding smaller homes, people wouldn’t have to live under the radar. If they changed the laws we would gladly pay taxes as well. But, why should I be forced into living in a huge house that I don’t want or need?
I think we all know that if you were to date someone they would know you. The person you described seemed like one nighters so their opinions shouldn’t matter anyway. lol But, a person that knew you would know where and how you lived. Or, am I too old fashioned on this one?
I just think that this post was just from a person too afraid of living his life as his own man. He would rather be a lemming and follow the flock, not questioning or reasoning, just following blindly, because the lemming society will chastize him.
I am too old to care and too young to continue to follow the flock.
Just one more question….
Everyone does realize that these houses were NOT intended for a family right? I think people are missing the point. This tiny homes are intended for single or a couple with out kids for full time living. AM I wrong on this?
I’m a full-time professional skydiver. I live at an airport in my 25 ft camper. I have a wonderful and beautiful girlfriend. I live as cheaply as possible, I support my son. I have plenty of friends, and most of them large beautiful homes, nice cars and are fairly well off. There is one thing wrong though…..they wish they were me. They envy my life and lifestyle. My point is….the person that wrote that article…..has a lot to learn. I’m almost embarrassed for him/her. My life contradicts just about every point that person made. I have a different vision of success, and most of my friends are now agreeing with me. Happiness is not material. Success is the ability to design your life the way you want to live it.
Just a couple of ??
If all the people who lost homes in LA because of the hurricane had a small home on wheel, would they be able to have kept their homes?
If I lived in LA, and an earthquake hit, would it damage my foundation, do you think?
What if I lived in FLA in a tiny home on wheels, and a hurricane was coming, would I be able to, lets just say, connect it to a vehicle and get out of town, fast, ANd, and, come back later?
What if I live in the midwest and decide I want to move to Vermont, and then Maine, and then CALifornia, but (heres the trick question), keep my house with me. Could I do that? (that was a stumper, I know).
OK, this will be simply based on theory, alright, no reason to consider…. What if all the homes in the rust belt (the abandoned ones, and there are tens of thousands) were tiny homes, could those people who migrated ? have taken them with them, and THUS, yes thus, not have left behind a carcus to rot and decay and for others to deal with? (thats just theory, I know). Yes, I have to agree, tiny homes suck, or whatever…
I, as the father of five, am also concerned about safety and if I build a tumbleweed, I will equip it with these: http://www.Majestec.com
These high-security mesh screendoors and windows are super cool and would improve not only the safety of the occupants, but their comfort as well! Probably spendy though…
Greetings!
I love the whole tiny house concept for all of the many reasons already so eloguently stated by so many other adherents. But, like so many other things in life, it is a matter of degree, and balance. For instance, after living in an 8×16 foot trailer for a couple of years, I feel that I need at least 7.5 x 24 interior feet to contain all that is necessary–a washing machine, wood stove solar powered frig and freezer, a wood cookstove (which heats water), and a bed on the MAIN floor. And, while I do intend to build a tiny house, I have some grave misgivings:
1. Insurance. I bought the book. I downloaded the pomomo plans. I then started calling insurance companies. No one will insure the tiny house trailer. Period. So! If I sink my meager monies into building and furnishing this thing where I am now (where I have electricity and tools and time and a place to live in during the process) my investment could be wiped out at any point during construction by anything from theft to a tornado, and I would have nothing to show for my efforts. Also, if I do manage to get it on the road, I have a 2700+ mile trip to make–towing a “recreational vehicle” which is, still, uninsured. A semi can total my tint house and I am totally skewered! Now, maybe Jay can afford to lose a $35,000.00 investment, but I cannot. Not at my age and on a fixed income. That would wipe me out!
2. A Border Crossing. I live in the States and the parcel I bought in the woods is in New Brunswick, Canada. I have heard tell that, at the border, the powers that be may decide that the tiny house is NOT an RV, but rather a mobile home, and thus can charge a HUGE DUTY to bring it into the country. Is this true?
3. Towing. If I built the Pomomo, wouldn’t I need a one ton truck to tow it? That would mean a U-haul, as I don’t happen to have any one ton trucks lying around. Wouldn’t that cost a young fortune to rent for such a long journey? And, again, at the border, wouldn’t that cause the authorities to assess a duty on one for (literally) moving house, as opposed to simply visiting with an RV behind a more standard pick-up?
Now, from what I understand, AFTER the thing is parked and skirted, you can get insurance. So, I guess that means I will have to build on-site. This is also scary, as the season for such a project is really short. I will have no electric at the site. I will not know a soul there to ask for help or advice. . . oh well, sounds like my life in general. I will just suck it up and let it be a(nother) challenge!
All valid points. You have hit on many of the true issues involved with a wooden house on a trailer, as opposed to the sales spiel. Tiny houses are not a way to make life simple, at least not yet… and never will be on a trailer. The extra weight compared to an RV, etc. means they will become unstable sooner… (see the sale blog about one hit by high winds somewhere on Kent’s site.)
We all need to fight for zoning changes and build safe and insurable homes for the future, not 10-15 years.
my wanna be tiny house has been a fun building experience, and should eventually make a nice guest room and/or storage shed . as far as full residency in a tiny house…not for most people . yes it’s not practical in many senses , but the very atmosphere of this movement is helping people reassess morally the bankrupt gluttony in our societys . something…
Debate is pointless but..i think this person is an idiot..i really do and honestly as a single mom i dont have that much money or need to buy a huge house.. its just me and my young son..we dont have much and im obsessivly clean so how is a tiny house a bad match for me? i dont care what others think of me i really dont and honestly the less i have to pay in utilities the more i have to save..so who has a bigger bank account? the family who cant afford their 5 bedroom house and has declared bankruptcy or me? the “under achiever”?
Well if the girl doesn’t want you because of your house or how much money you have then I guess you would have done yourself a big favor. Love is not about the things you have or how much money you can make. That kind of love will be gone if something happens to your income anyway! Material girls aren’t for the kind of guy who could appreciate this kind of living. Your argument really seems like a moot point to me…
Some people seem to get stuck on the idea that one size fits all or that if one person advocates a tiny, medium or huge house they mean that everybody should live in that size house. It is not physically possible or environmentally desirable for everybody to live in a tiny house on a plot of land surrounded by wilderness, though many people can and do or dream of doing it. Houses over a certain size, depending on how many people are living in it and how they are using the space, are wasteful and environmentally undesirable as well. What’s needed are a multitude of options in size, type of ‘ownership’, arrangements of public and private space, location, etc, and appropriate regulations to maintain reasonable health and safety standards. Co-housing and co-ops are good for people who can get along with a group, but may not work for loners or people with different priorities than that group. Nothing wrong with not being suited to any one type of housing, you just need to find what works for you and doesn’t make trouble for others. Some people also seem a little bitter about the fact that another person has found their bit of paradise and feel compelled to be snarky about it or give it a bad review based solely on their own preferences. It’s OK to say you prefer a different setup, but it isn’t necessary to say so by saying the other person’s choice is wrong. Mentioning shortcomings in a plan is not necessarily negative either, it often helps to get another point of view to show you something you might have missed, so no need for people to get all sensitive and feel attacked if all that’s being done is pointing out some issues.
Oooh, yay! I love someone willing to play devil’s advocate, thank you for posting this. However…
1) Insurance. This is, I think, one of the weakest links of tiny home living. I’ve spoken to two different reps who both say that the tiny house qualifies as an RV and can be insured as such, but ‘won’t know until you try’ is the current atmosphere.
2) Not being able to get a loan for the build/purchase of a tiny house is, in my mind, a good thing. I don’t believe in debt, and a person willing to save up for something important to them has a level of integrity that is very respectable. You also won’t have to pay interest on that money you don’t have.
3) See above for rebuttal on size of house = size of penis/bank account/quality of relationship. The amount of freedom tiny houses offer is dead sexy, and any man who can walk outside one morning and say “Hm, I think I’d like to go to Colorado for a while” and actually DO it is a man I would like to spend some time with. Jus sayin’.
4) Building codes. These vary. However, buy your own land, pay taxes on that land, and then see what the government has to say. You’re a law-abiding citizen: the system works for you
4) You don’t “simply have to have” anything but a safe place to sleep and a few decent meals. This is something that gets to me a LOT, and is what originally got me interested in the tiny house movement. The misconception is that living in the modern age requires things like a full size fridge, washer/dryer, etc. This is completely untrue: wash your clothes for the day every evening in a bucket-crank and centrifuge them dry (a system that costs a total of $150 and takes about 5 min of your time) for a complete lack of “laundry day” chores. Learn to preserve your food instead of just throwing it lazily into the fridge. Learn to cook instead of relying on a microwave. Stop replacing skills (and again, a man who knows how to actually DO something is pretty sexy) with gadgets.
The things that argue against attempting tiny house living are usually the things that the movement is trying to fight in the first place: the “money and stuff first” attitude that takes away the integrity of a human life and replaces it with possessions or coin. Of course it’s not for everyone, nothing is, but it’s something that can at the very least be considered and used as a template to evaluate one’s own life.
“people can steal your whole house!”…ha ha ha ha…yeah, that would suck.
Lo-jack, security cameras, and trustworthy neighbors.
Just like any other house or neighborhood.
And since the house is mobile, add a GPS tracker too somewhere. That way if someone even manages to steal your your, you can go and retrieve it alongside with police.
What kind of “tiny house person” wants to meet someone who wants all of the things that “society” dictates? I think the relationship would already be off on the wrong foot.
Your tiny house doesn’t have to be a violation of code. It could be code compliant, particularly if it’s on wheels or it floats.
True about the ladder and a date, but I’m not sure 100 sq. ft. is optimal for more than one person. As for your boss or other folks…this is a growing movement, and has been featured on many magazine covers and television shows, so your boss or others should be informed, or they are the ones out of the loop. Besides, when you have a lot of cash to buy what others can’t ever seem to afford, that’s the time to explain, and they won’t forget that when their mortgage prevents them from going on that vacation to Bali.
ofcourse there are things to consider with any house (big or small, owned or rented). The main problem with Ryan’s arguement is that 99% is based on what other people might think of you (and appearantly some difficulty getting action). Freedom of any kind can never be acheived while maintaining such insecurities.
Having lived in a variety of ‘tiny houses’: (Airstream trailers, converted school bus, slide-in truck camper, fullsize and minivan, airport hangar, rented 100 square foot offices, house-sitting, etc), I’ll grant you there’s a bit of inconvenience, but a huge amount of freedom. Not always 100% legal, but then, who in today’s world survives at 100% legal? I’ve enough in the bank to pay cash for several rust-belt houses, but why would I? My personal economy isn’t tied to any local economy, and I head for tropical beaches and hostels when the work gets slow and the weather gets stinky. And yeah, some chicks dig the guy who can think for himself, others don’t. You got a problem financing or insuring a tiny house? I paid $3 US for the slide-in camper, $500 for the school bus (sold it fifteen years later for $1500), $100 for the minivan … if you need financing or insurance on that, dude, you need to go buy a new suburban tract house, get a government job, lease a new SUV, and pray for the day when you get two weeks paid vacation and that the entire Realtor-inspired pyramid scheme doesn’t collapse and leave you underwater.